|Norway Chess (2019)|
The 7th edition of Altibox Norway Chess was a 10-player round-robin featuring World Champion Magnus Carlsen and six more of the world's Top 10 players. It took place from 3-15 June in the Clarion Energy Hotel (Rounds 1-6) and Stavanger Concert Hall (Rounds 7-9) in Stavanger. Classical games were worth 2 points for a win, but in case of a draw players got half a point and played an Armageddon game for the remaining point. Players received 2 hours for each classical game, with a 10-second increment only after move 40. No draw offers were allowed until move 30. In the Armageddon games White had 10 minutes to Black's 7, with a 3-second increment from move 61. In case of a draw the player with Black got the full point. If there was a tie for first at the end of the tournament a 3+2 blitz playoff would take place. (1)
Magnus Carlsen won with 13,5 points, ahead of Levon Aronian and Yu Yangyi.
Category: XXII (2784). Chief arbiter: Anemone Kulczak.
Elo 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 So-B Euros
1 Carlsen 2875 ** ½1 2- ½0 ½1 ½1 ½1 ½1 ½1 2- 13½ 75000
2 Aronian 2752 ½0 ** ½1 0- ½1 ½1 ½1 ½0 2- ½1 10½ 48 32500
3 Yu Yangyi 2738 0- ½0 ** ½1 0- ½1 ½1 ½1 2- 2- 10½ 45.5 32500
4 Caruana 2819 ½1 2- ½0 ** ½0 0- ½1 2- ½0 ½1 10 45.5 19000
5 So 2754 ½0 ½0 2- ½1 ** ½0 ½0 ½1 ½1 ½1 10 39.5 19000
6 Ding Liren 2805 ½0 ½0 ½0 2- ½1 ** ½0 ½0 2- ½0 8½ 17000
7 Anand 2767 ½0 ½0 ½0 ½0 ½1 ½1 ** ½1 0- ½1 8 32 15000
8 Vachier-Lagrave 2779 ½0 ½1 ½0 0- ½0 ½1 ½0 ** ½1 ½1 8 30 15000
9 Mamedyarov 2774 ½0 0- 0- ½1 ½0 0- 2- ½0 ** ½0 5½ 18 12500
10 Grischuk 2775 0- ½0 0- ½0 ½0 ½1 ½0 ½0 ½1 ** 5½ 14 12500
Official site: https://norwaychess.no/en/. ChessBase: https://en.chessbase.com/post/norwa... Chess.com: https://www.chess.com/news/view/alt... TWIC: http://theweekinchess.com/chessnews...
Previous edition: Norway Chess (2018). Opening Blitz tournament: Norway Chess (Blitz) (2019)
| page 4 of 4; games 76-79 of 79
| page 4 of 4; games 76-79 of 79
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 24 OF 25 ·
|Jun-16-19|| ||moronovich: <Well, that's it from me for a while. Tomorrow morning it's off to the beautiful city of Wien/Vienna and its neighbor Graz. Auf wiedersehen!>|
På gensyn-auf wiedersehen-au revoir-viel
|Jun-17-19|| ||AylerKupp: <<soldal> Using the correct cross-table at the top: Carlsen 13.5/18 = 75%, Yu 10.5/18 = 58.3%>|
Yes. <chessgames.com> seems to have a some trouble keeping the Tournament Standings up to date and accurate while the tournament is going on and even some time after it completes. It's clear that with 9 rounds to be played and a maximum score of 2 points per round, the maximum number points is 18. So don't put too much faith on it.
The crosstable shown above matches the final standings from the official site, https://norwaychess.no/en/results-a... and so it's likely to be correct. As an aside, it shows Aronian taking 2nd place over Yu Yangyi due to his higher Sonnenborn-Berger score, 48.0 vs. 45.5.
But a great performance by Yu Yangi regardless to finish in 3rd place due to the tiebreakers given that he was the lowest rated player in the tournament.
|Jun-17-19|| ||soldal: |
Well, the first thing to realise is that the box called "Tournament Standings" at the top of the page does not necessarily reflect the real standings, and is not really meant to do so. cg.com is a database of chessgames, and the table is an automated result of the games put into it, with 1 and 0 points or 2x1/2 points for each game, irrespective of the tournament point system. In many open tournaments players can get a half-point, and even a whole point, in a round without actually playing a game. These points will not show up in the table (which regularly results in heated discussions about the hopeless admins failing to give us the correct standings).
And yet, although I know this very well, during this tournamant I've each day cast a quick glance at the table and wondered why it always was lagging behind the actual situation. So I was happy to correct <diceman>'s 10.5/16 = 65.63%
Then I turned off the computer and went to bed. Almost immediately I was hit with the explanation of the discrepancy. All games, classical and armageddon, are treated the same way of course, with traditional points! In my head I checked with Carlsen's results: 2 wins and 7 draws in classical, that's 5.5 points, and 6 wins and one loss in armageddon, that's 6 points, for a total of 11.5 points in 16 games. 11.5/16 = 71% and some, not 65%. At least I was right in implying that the table was wrong.
Waking up this morning, another fact dropped down in my head: in armageddon a black draw is a win. So, Carlsen must have had two black draws among his six wins, which would explain his
10.5 points. I haven't cared to check this out, I'm sure the table is technically correct (even if Carlsen offered a draw in a completely won game and there undoubtedly are other similar results).
|Jun-17-19|| ||lostemperor: Winners of Norway chess final standings prediction contest at my forum: <alfamikewhiskey>♔♕♕ <Keyser Soze>♔♕♖, <Penguincw>♔, <chessmoron>♖♖, <lostemperor>♖|
Next tournament Grand Chess Tour June 26 https://grandchesstour.org/2019-gra...
|Jun-17-19|| ||chancho: No one is perfect.
Flaws are commonplace and that applies to Magnus Carlsen as well.
But winning seven consecutive tournaments in different chess disciplines is still quite the feat.
No other player in the top ten has accomplished that.
|Jun-17-19|| ||fabelhaft: Top six at the moment are all 28 years or younger.|
|Jun-17-19|| ||AylerKupp: <<soldal> Well, the first thing to realise is that the box called "Tournament Standings" at the top of the page does not necessarily reflect the real standings, and is not really meant to do so.>|
I fail to follow your logic. If the box called "Tournament Standings" at the top of the page is not meant to reflect the "Tournament Standings", why is it labeled so? What else is it supposed to represent? Maybe the title should be changed to something like "Tentative Tournament Standings" or something similar. Then at least the title would be accurate. And once the standings accurately reflect the final standings, then the "Tentative" could be removed.
The fact that the standings were not accurately updated is understandable. This was a scoring system unlike, I believe, any scoring system used before. And, as with any automated system, errors are typically initially made when it is implemented. But the tournament has been over for several days and the proper scores and standings were shown in the crosstable. So the <chessgames.com> staff who updates the Tournament Standings have had time to update the Tournament Standings manually if desired.
And, yes, Carlsen had two draws while playing Black in the Armageddon games. This can be indirectly verified by looking at the official site at https://norwaychess.no/en/results-a... or directly by looking at the results of round-by-round for both regular ("R") and Armageddon ("A") games. The <chess24.com> site usually does a good job of accurately updating the game results as soon as each game is completed.
I think that the real reason that the Tournament Standings are incorrect is that they are calculated on the basis of the tournament games uploaded. And, if all the tournament games are not uploaded, then the Tournament Standings will always be incorrect. That would also explain the lag between the actual tournament results and the Tournament Standings since it depends on the staff, many of which are users, to upload them in a timely manner. And that's understandable also. But only <chessgames.com> can verify that.
|Jun-17-19|| ||Sally Simpson: ***
I think you made a good attempt at trying to post what was happening and what finally happened. (even the main site had it wrong.)
You are indeed correct, this is a games Data Base and the results tables are a guide. Best to scrap them and have a Carlsen thumbs up- thumbs down table.
The more thumbs down Carlsen gets then you know he has won whatever it was he was playing in.
For some unknown reason people don't seem to like him. What is there not to like? or to be more precise what is there to dislike? And that goes for the rest of them. They have got good at a game we love.
Jealousy? I'm jealous of their chess skill but I'm glad I'm me. I'm good at being me. I'm the best me here.
|Jun-17-19|| ||jphamlore: Carlsen has lost all confidence he can actually finish off Caruana in a classical time controlled game. His new style is not going to work against Caruana, because Carlsen has lost the patience to endlessly grind however long it takes.|
I am now leaning towards Caruana being the new champion by the end of the next world championship match, not exactly the outcome I am rooting for.
|Jun-17-19|| ||LameJokes: |
The main purpose of cg is to let kibitzers kibitz. More off-topic the better.
There are other sites that post tournament results. Why repeat the same thing here?
Keeping accurate database is a tedious process. LcZero and Stockfish play 100 games between them. Without getting tired. Since they are machines.
Does that mean Admin has to update all those 100 games? No. It's damn tiresome for humans.
|Jun-17-19|| ||AylerKupp: <<jphamlore> Carlsen has lost all confidence he can actually finish off Caruana in a classical time controlled game. His new style is not going to work against Caruana, because Carlsen has lost the patience to endlessly grind however long it takes>|
I think that you are getting ahead of yourself. Caruana first has to win the 2020 Candidates Tournament and that's not a certainty. And why do you think that Carlsen has lost all confidence he can actually finish off Caruana in a classical time controlled game?
Besides, even if this was true, what difference would that make? If the classical time control portion of the WCC match were to end in a tie, do you think that Carlsen has also lost confidence in beating Caruana in the Rapid and, if it came to that, the Blitz tiebreak sections of the WCC match?
Which, of course, doesn't mean that Caruana can't beat Carlsen in the classical time control portion of the WCC match. But his chances were better in 2018 when Carlsen was not playing as well as he's playing at the moment (although, also of course, that doesn't mean that he will be playing as well in the fall of 2020) and Caruana was playing at near his all-time best. Which also doesn't mean that Caruana will not be at his all time best in the fall of 2020. Nobody knows, it's just too early to make predictions.
|Jun-17-19|| ||perfidious: The world should simply accept that <hamhock> is a 3200 player manque whose erudition outstrips that of any player, living or dead.|
|Jun-18-19|| ||JustAnotherMaster: < chancho: No one is perfect.
Flaws are commonplace and that applies to Magnus Carlsen as well. But winning seven consecutive tournaments in different chess disciplines is still quite the feat. No other player in the top ten has accomplished that.>|
And he played the most interesting and determined chess even when he had nothing to play for in the final round, yet haters gonna hate...g'day chancho
|Jun-21-19|| ||Pedro Fernandez: <<perfidious>: The world should simply accept that <hamhock> is a 3200 player manque whose erudition outstrips that of any player, living or dead.> |
Hey <perfidious>, your English is really hard for me. That word <hamhock> I have not idea what does it mean. After you use <outstrip>, why not overcome? Carlsen or Alekhine? Well, already the former had defeated the World, but not so big as 3200 guys/girls. Believe or not, I never had read your profile, and I was surprised! Firstly, I thought you were British, but you're American! Secondly, I see you are (IMO) an important person here in Chess Games. FIDE Master and a professional Poker player. So, don't you think that your Username represents an antinomy of what you really have been in your life? Or did you do it sarcastically? Honestly, I don't know. As you know very well I always have been your friend. Greetings!
|Jun-22-19|| ||perfidious: <Pedro Fernandez>, my apologies if my usage of English has caused you any problems--never meant to do that for you or anyone else.|
With all respect, if I may correct you on two points: I never made FIDE Master and do not consider myself of any great importance here at CG. I vote for people such as <jessicafischerqueen>, <Annie K.>, <Phony Benoni> and <hemy>, all of whom have contributed far more.
I am only reluctant to name those I have mentioned above because it means there are others whose names I have not brought into this who have also given much to CG and I have no wish to offend them.
Take care and be well, sir.
|Jun-22-19|| ||Pedro Fernandez: Thanks my dear <perfidious>, I appreciate your words.|
|Jun-23-19|| ||jphamlore: https://www.nrk.no/sport/magnus-car...|
Someone parse this. I can't.
It seems to me from Google translate that Carlsen isn't really threatening to not play the world championship match if Stavanger, Norway, wins the bid to host the world championship. But now there is yet another argument about whether Carlsen is all that into defending his world championship.
Carlsen doesn't seem to have much problem playing Karjakin these days. There is some strange psychological barrier where he just can't play Caruana in the same way that he had proven works for him.
|Jun-23-19|| ||JustAnotherMaster: Anyone want to put up 10k on cuarano and I'll take Carlsen I have multi online accounts let me know.... LMAO|
|Jun-23-19|| ||chancho: Good article on Chessbase:
<Entrepreneur, trainer, and Grandmaster Miguel Illescas puts down some thoughts on how to make elite chess touranments more fan friendly.
Inspired by the Norway Chess Armageddon experiment, he offers a proposal to improve the format with tweaks to the scoring and time control.>
|Jun-23-19|| ||john barleycorn: From the above article:
The winner in each round receives one point, the loser zero. Easy to understand for the public and the press.>
There is hope for the CG table on tournament standings.
|Jun-23-19|| ||Count Wedgemore: <jphamlore> What has angered Carlsen is that the Norwegian Chess Federation chose to commit themselves to the Stavanger bid when it was still very early in the process, which has kind of blocked the way for other Norwegian organizers to submit a bid. I think that Magnus' wish was to play the next WCC Match in, or near, Oslo (if Norway is chosen too arrange it). But he has good relations to the Stavanger organizers (the same behind Norway Chess, as I'm sure you know), it's just some bad blood between him and the federation, and not only because of this issue..|
<There is some strange psychological barrier where he just can't play Caruana..> I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense.
|Jun-24-19|| ||Pyrandus: Orwell vs. Orban? Titanic Battle!|
|Jun-27-19|| ||Sokrates: Well explained, <Count W>. After reading the article I got a sort of déjà vu, recalling Larsen's troubled relation to the Danish Chess Union. It seems to be the same old story: men at the union top who think they can treat their star players like obediant soldiers who just have to shut up and do what they are told. IIRC Larsen refused to play for the union for some years. Carlsen has done so much for Norway chess, he doesn't want priviliges, just duly respect and normal decent consideration. Agreed?|
|Jun-27-19|| ||Count Wedgemore: <Sokrates> Yes, you're absolutely right. The relations between Carlsen and Norges Sjakkforbund used to be excellent, but over the last few years they have been slowly deteriorating. For one, I think Magnus feels that they should at least have discussed things with Magnus before going for Stavanger as the potential WCC 2020 host.|
But of course now the relationship between him and some of the most prominent leaders in NSF is on the lowest level it has ever been because of "Kindredgate" (as <Diademas> humorously has coined it). Magnus absolutely wants NSF to take the deal with the Malta-based sports betting company Kindred, a deal that will bring 50 million Norwegian Kroner to Norwegian Chess over the next five years. The problem is that such a deal runs counter to everything that NSF, and Norwegian sport in general, is all about; for Norsk Tipping (who along with Norsk Rikstoto controls all legal inland sports betting, and has been the main source of income for Norwegian sports) it is like a declaration of war. This will not end well..and now Carlsen has established a kind of bogus chess club, gaining 1,000 members in a matter of days (the membership was free, Magnus pays all the fees), just to gain delegates so he can make the Kindred deal go through when there will be a vote during NSF's Congress that starts some ten days from now.
You all can read about it here:
Yeah, like I said, this will not end well. As I see it, what Carlsen is doing is really a form of coup d'état to take de facto control of the Norwegian Chess Federation. But if he doesn't succeed in this, and the Kindred deal gets struck down then I fear there will be a schism between him and the federation that will be difficult to heal.
Personally I'm conflicted about this deal (some of us have just been discussing this a bit over at Carlsen's player page Magnus Carlsen).
I don't like the way this deal has come about, but it's a lot of money that could potentially work wonders for Norwegian Chess.
|Jun-27-19|| ||Sokrates: Thank you very much for this thorough analysis, <Count W>. |
The Danish chess union has tried several times to become a part of the equivalent, Dansk Tipstjeneste, and their distribution of money support for sports. Alas, in vain.
If I understand you correctly, this is not the case in Norway - the NSF actually receives money from the official tipping, NT. So, if NSF decides to go with the private owned Kindred the NT would regard this as a sort of treachery and withdraw their support?
I understand your dilemma in this. I must say that in general I am not very sympathetic towards these commercial betting companies. While the official institutions spend their profits on good causes, the privates send their profits to the share-holders. But 50 million Kr. are tempting, very tempting. A true dilemma! :-)
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 24 OF 25 ·
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