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🏆 Kasparov - Ponomariov World Championship Match (2003)

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Kibitzer's Corner
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Sep-21-03  Benjamin Lau: Blitz / Rapid:
Kasparov 5
Draw 10
Kramnik 3

Classic:
Kasparov 1
Draw 9
Kramnik 1

Assuming:
Korchnoi Birthday KO = classic
IT = classic
I wasn't sure if these were classic or blitz.

In either case, I seemed to have miscounted last time- Kasparov holds a slight plus against Kramnik in the games of this database in games since the WC.

Sep-21-03
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: <Benjamin Lau> Very Interesting. Thanks.
Sep-22-03  LuRenard: Kasparov-Ponomariov World Championship Match

Who cares? Kasparov destroyed professional chess years ago! Does even the public really care?

In order for a championship to mean something it has to be legit, it has to have history, it has to have customs and tradition. Say what you will, but FIDE's championship with its candidates tournament cycle, had all that.

Kasparov trashed it long ago..... when he and Short pulled there little stunt years ago....

Funny, for being the greatist player the world has ever seen, Kasparov sure hasn't been good for organizied chess!

Sep-23-03
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: What was good for Kasparov wasn't necessarily good for chess.
Sep-23-03  PVS: Tal nailed it in 1991 when asked about the fall of the Soviet Union: "Good for chess players, bad for chess." Former Soviet chess players are certainly making more money, but the unmitigated greed of Kasparov, coupled with the corruption and ineptitude of FIDE, has brought the world championship process into farce and disgrace.
Sep-23-03  LuRenard: I remember a lot of talk back in the ninties about making chess as popular as tennis. It didn't happen and I think one of the reasons was no real championship. I'm no pro, nor will I ever be, yet fan I am. Pro sport is the pinacle of any game. Chess needs a unified championship, and a unified professional league that doesn't have its terms dictated by the current champion. We are heading back to the days of Lasker, where the challenger (who is usually stronger) only gets a shot at the title when the champion can no longer hide behind his past accolades. We are not to far off from thiswith these super ratings inflated grandmasters that play a tournament once or twice a year and claim to be the best.

We the fans deserve much better Chess needs somebody like Dr Euwe to come along again

Sep-23-03  Kaspablanca: I see the only solution of this mess is either Kasparov has to be tried without privilegies or get out of pro chess. The same goes for Kirsan.
Sep-30-03
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: When are the next FIDE elections?
Oct-14-03  Bears092: I haven't been following the entire FIDE/ World Championship debates, but based on the players I know, I have a rather simple, but time consuming suggestion.

16-man double round robin tournament.

Pretty much everyone who has a realistic shot at the title is guaranteed to be in the top 10, and the other 6 could be fringe players who have an outside shot, an could still be debated.

The only problem I see with this is 32 games for everyone, which would probably take upwards of six months.

Oct-14-03  PinkPanther: <The only problem I see with this is 32 games for everyone, which would probably take upwards of six months.>

How in the hell would that take six months?

Oct-14-03  Bears092: I meant six weeks.
Oct-14-03  PinkPanther: <I meant six weeks.>

Oh,ok. That makes quite a bit more sense.

Oct-17-03  Paul123: I think FIDE's old way with candidates matches etc...probably was the best. Sooner or later age caught up with the champion. This created a natural changing of the guard. In Kasparov's case this hasn't happened. and I think its what he fears the most! That's why he's mucking up the waters now. He wants to avoid a real match with some of the younger players. Yea, he's stronger than just about everyone, but he's getting old. Can he last a whole tournament? Can he last in a real FIDE championship cycle where you have to play everyday for a month? Like the old days......(with no excuses!) That's a huge strain on the body both physically and mentally. In a match like this I could see him getting off to a good start then age catching up with him. Giving what he's done to chess a new champion would be welcomed by just about everyone. However, he needs to be beaten in a legit and convincing way, so the world no longer considers him the world champion.
Oct-21-03  MoonlitKnight: Excerpt from a recent press conference with Ruslan Ponomariov:

"My only wish is to play chess and to protect my title in an appropriate environment. That seems impossible. Perhaps, an alternative competition should be organized. Maybe the better thing is to give Kasparov the World Champion title, after which an accurate and clear competitive system can be created. I aim at equal conditions for every chess player trying to get the precious title – a World Champion."

I agree on much of this, although I don't think he has actually done much to help the situation.

Kasparov is still generally considered the strongest player. If he was re-awarded the title now and things got back to normal, everything could continue as if nothing had happened these 10 years. Then Kaspy would probably defend his title a few years and later lose it to some new hot shot like Leko, and everyone would be happy. Too bad there are things like economy, greed and primadonnas that will stop it from happening.

Oct-21-03  aulero: We can argue that today there is not a player with the WC title, but "re-awarded Kasparov with it" is non-sense: Kasparov has been defeated by Kramnik in a regular (for Kasparov) WC.
Oct-21-03  MoonlitKnight: Sure, if it was not for all this mocking about with PCA, there would probably not have been any problems. Kasparov started it in the first place and now he's coming crawling back to FIDE. I think they should let him back in the club though, considering he is possibly the strongest player who has ever lived.

I'd really liked if the Kaspy-Pono and Kramnik-Leko matches had worked out as planned, but in the time being, I think most people would rather see Kasparov as champion than that Ruslan character.

Oct-21-03
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: In case this isn't understood, the last thing I remember reading is that Kasparov will play a match against the winner of the FIDE's December knockout tournament, and Kramnik is meanwhile still trying to make a match with Leko happen.
Oct-21-03  ttr2121: Karpov is essentially right. The old system of interzonals, candidates tournaments and matches leading to a world champiopnship of 24 games, while slow, was rigorous and accurate. Whoever prevailed was deservedly the champion. Some variation on this should be reinstated, particularly a long match for the title. Chess is not, and won't ever be, a great TV spectacle. Too much has been made of making the game "sexier." But it can be interesting and exciting for millions when presented in a format that has some semblance of credibility. I believe a variation of the old system--or the old system itself--would give the game back its credentials.
Oct-21-03  drukenknight: Hey who died and made FIDE King anyhow?

[whispers]

Oh, Alekhine died? Oh okay then.

Oct-21-03  Diggitydawg: Here's a link to the complete interview with Ponomariov: http://etcc.chessbg.com/interviews?... In it, he reveals that he has no plans to defend his FIDE title. He also questions the likelihood of a Kramnik-Leko match, given the fallout of the cancellation of his match with Kasparov.

FIDE's Congress is scheduled for early next month, I am curious to see how they will try to resolve the championship mess.

Oct-22-03  MoonlitKnight: <Karpov is essentially right. The old system of interzonals, candidates tournaments and matches leading to a world champiopnship of 24 games, while slow, was rigorous and accurate.> Much like Karpov's style of play.
Oct-23-03  Diggitydawg: FIDE's congress will take place early next month. The delegates from all the federations will meet in Greece to address the current problems in the chess world, including the championship schism. I am not sanguine about their prospects. FIDE has been under a constant state of disorganization and corruption, first under the watch of Florencio Campomanes, then under Kirsan Ilyumzhinov (notice I used "watch" instead of "leadership"). Some people on this site blame Kasparov for throwing the World championship cycle into chaos in 1993. I put the blame on Campomanes. The events in 1993 would not have occurred if Campomanes had not continually made decisions that were harmful to Kasparov's career. First, by scheduling Kasparov's match with Korchnoi in Pasadena (which neither player wanted), Campo angered the Soviets to the point where they refused to let Kasparov play, and the match was forfeited to Korchnoi. Later there was a hastily arranged make-up match in London, organized by Ray Keene, where Kasparov prevailed. Then in the 1984 Karpov-Kasparov match, when Garry was starting to climb back from his deficit, Campo stopped the match. Who was this bozo to decide who was World champion? This was the act that threw the world championship cycle into chaos and earned Campo emnity by Kasparov for the rest of his life. The three-year-cycle was destroyed then, because another world championship match took place in 1985, another in 1986, and yet another in 1987. Then the championship cycle seemed to get back on track. But in 1993, Kasparov and Short formed the PCA. I can tell you that this would never have happened if Campomanes was not still FIDE president. Further evidence of Campomanes' incompetence was how FIDE changed the date and country (even continent!) of its major events. In 1986, Campo allowed the olympiad to be held in the United Arab Emirates, where it was impossible for the Israeli team and some Jewish members of other teams to participate. In 1995, Campomanes announced he would retire if Kirsan Ilyumzhinov became FIDE president after him. But Campomanes wanted a new position as “chairman” of FIDE. The nerve of that bozo! Kirsan won his bid for the FIDE presidency by giving gifts to the delegates. For those of you who long for the good old days of stability in the chess world, you should know that a huge reason for the instability we are seeing now is that many of the delegates of the chess federations have a limited understanding of the chess world, and that they are mostly political appointees. This differs from the time when the Eastern bloc hegemony ensured that the FIDE Congress was dominated by people who understood the issues in the chess world (I’m not defending this hegemony, merely stating that it consisted of competent chessplayers). So Kirsan became FIDE president by buying off those delegates. Yes he injected his money into FIDE, helping it recover from the financial mismanagement of the Campomanes administration. But he has failed to resolve the problems surrounding the state of the World championship. Kirsan’s failure thus far at FIDE is illustrated by Seirawan’s letter to FIDE: http://www.gmsquare.com/gmforum/ope... Some other evidence of FIDE under Kirsan’s incompetence is given by the organizers of the Dortmund, Linares, and Wijk Aan Zee tournaments: http://www.chessbase.com/events/eve... . So I don’t think that FIDE will accomplish anything substantial next month. Two dictators have been at the helm of FIDE. When will another Max Euwe be found?

I used this article as a source: http://www.chessworks.com/misc/camp...

Oct-23-03  Paul123: I would believe Campomanes and Ilyumzhinov were corrupt if Kasparov was legit in defending his title, but he is not. Fisher also tried to highjack the crown and FIDE was strong enough to rebuff his attempts, he also made claims similar to the one stated above by Kasparov. When I read Kasparov's memoirs the guy came off like he was a nut! He sees conspiracies behind every corner. Just like Korchnoi and Karpov (e.g. the hypnotist.... what crap!)

Kasparov highjack the crown when he got that "patsy" Nigel Short to agree to a championship match. As if Short really had a chance. I will never understand why there wasn't a giant outcry from other professionals. I bet they wish they would have stuck by Fide and banished Kasparov, then they would still have a real league/touring circuit in which to play in.

Oct-23-03  Sylvester: Fide has ruined chess!
Oct-23-03  Diggitydawg: <Paul123> As far as Short being a "patsy", I can only say he eliminated both Timman and Karpov legitimately in the FIDE candidate matches.

In general, I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

You wonder why there was not a large outcry from other GMs at 1993? It is because they had no confidence in Campomanes. After the ’86 reelection, many GMs joined the GMA (their trade union) because they wanted to protect their rights from any arbitrary decisions from Campomanes and FIDE, and all the dirty politicking that went on among the various federations. Unfortunately, the GMA failed, a large part due to Kasparov’s naivete and ego.

What chess really needs now is a FIDE that will 1) respect the players' rights (work to preserve the value of a FIDE title) and 2) Work WITH event organizers to build a real touring circuit, not try to CONTROL organizers as the following illustrates: http://www.chessbase.com/events/eve...

And why is Campomanes and Ilyumzhinov's corruption conditional on anything that Kasparov does? Campomanes was sentenced to 22 months in prison by the Philippine government for the loss of USD 700,000 that was supposed to be held in trust for the '92 Manila Olympiad: http://www.chessnetwork.com/ncn/b/g... And can you deny that Ilyumzhinov gave out expensive gifts to FIDE delegates to ensure their vote for him: http://www.ishipress.com/leong.htm

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