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Mar-05-13
 | | Check It Out: I agree with <maxi>, this has been the most enjoyable thread for a while. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | ozmikey: <HeMateMe> Most of the accounts of the "Pasadena affair" are contradictory and somewhat confusing, but one thing in particular seems to emerge without question: Korchnoi, whatever his shameful behaviour during the previous two WC matches, played a key role, and a magnanimous one, in ensuring that the matches could take place. Yes, he got the boycott overturned as recompense, but that seems a relatively small return for sacrificing a free step up towards what would surely have been his final shot at the WC, given his age. I think part of the subtext there was that he genuinely believed he could beat Kasparov. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | BUNA: <HeMateMe: ... the other semifinal was Smyslov v. Zoltan Ribli of Hungary. This match would also be forfeited, because the USSR would not allow Smyslov to play in the UAE, for some reason.> I think it's not to difficult to guess the reason. The war in Afghanistan was continuing and a couple of golf states supported the Mujahedeen. Primarily it was Saudi Arabia of course (remember Bin Laden), but others were also involved.
For simple security reasons the Soviet authorities wouldn't want a Russian to play chess there. |
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Mar-05-13
 | | HeMateMe: < Korchnoi, whatever his shameful behaviour during the previous two WC matches, played a key role, and a magnanimous one, in ensuring that the matches could take place.> What is this "shameful behavior" you are referring to? <buna> You are probably right. I thought that the UAE was somewhat disliked by mideast power brokers, just a small, artificial oil rich state created by western powers. I thought they might have been friendly to the USA, maybe there was an air base there, or something. Can't imagine why another city could not have been agreed upon. I'm sure Ribli would have loved to have some western currency to spend, and would have played anywhere, except behind the hated iron curtain. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | ozmikey: <HeMateMe> For a brief account of Korchnoi's behaviour at Merano, see here: http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com.au/... And Robert Byrne was certainly no automatic supporter of the Soviets! As for Baguio in 1978, stories about that match are legion. Even those who've written about the match from a largely pro-Korchnoi perspective (GM Keene, for instance) weren't too happy with his choice of company and "off-the-board" tactics during that crazy, surreal match. |
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Mar-05-13
| | HeMateMe: I know of Korchnoi's claiming to have been hypnotized by some fool sitting in the first row. That paranoia can't be any worse than the soviets dismantling Spassky's playing chair, in Reykjavik, thinking that there was some electrical component that could be distracting him. Also, wasn't Korchnoi's son Igor still being held prisoner at the time, for refusing the mandatory USSR military service at age 18? That could weigh heavy on a chessplayer. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | Everett: <It all seems plausible, what Kasparov is saying. He feels that as a half Jew from central asia, he was not thought of as a "real russian chessplayer", me paraphrasing. He felt like an outsider.> I don't understand this. Botvinnik and Tal were Jewish. And to my understanding Korchnoi was not shunned due to his religion, but I can't say I know what goes behind closed doors in Soviet Russia. Strange. And Petrosian was from Armenia, no? Not Russian by birth... |
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| Mar-05-13 | | tzar: Does anyone know why Kasparov after the demise of the USSR played for Russia and not for his beloved Azerbaijan if <he felt like an outsider>? was it a Depardieu like maneuver? |
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| Mar-05-13 | | ozmikey: <HeMateMe> Without wanting to get too far off topic here... <I know of Korchnoi's claiming to have been hypnotized by some fool sitting in the first row. That paranoia can't be any worse than the soviets dismantling Spassky's playing chair, in Reykjavik, thinking that there was some electrical component that could be distracting him.> That's a little different to giving constant abusive press conferences about it. Not to mention the fact that the Soviets in 1972 probably felt the need to "provoke in kind" after all Fischer's antics prior to, and during the early stages of that match! <Also, wasn't Korchnoi's son Igor still being held prisoner at the time, for refusing the mandatory USSR military service at age 18? That could weigh heavy on a chessplayer.> This is true of course, but Karpov (in 1978 at least) had several off-the-board strains to deal with as well - the death of a cherished friend and trainer just before the match, and his own father's terminal illness. |
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Mar-05-13
| | HeMateMe: <ozmikey:> Regarding press conferences--This guy, I think his name was "Zhukar", not sure--was clearly irritating Korchnoi. He seemed to have a Tal like stare. This match was kind of important, it was for the world championship. Don't you think responsible people could have had this guy moved to another part of the viewing area, instead of being in the first row, game after game? Doesn't a world's champion contestant deserve *that* much respect? The only reason he was left there (in the first row) was because the Soviets knew the guy was getting under Korchnoi's skin. I don't know if it was Euwe or Camponmanes who was president of FIDE at the time, but there was no reason for letting some oddball sit in the front row of a world champion match and deliberately try and upset one of the players. I'm surprised that any serious chess fan visiting this site would side with the Soviets on this. Whether the guy did or did not have "paranormal powers", as Korchnoi thought, he simply didn't belong in the front row of such an important event. I suppose mentioning this at the daily press conference was an embarrassment, but it was no worse than the Soviets coming to within a hair of forfeiting young Kasparov five years later. Also, it was no more pathetic than the Soviet boycott against Korchnoi (he defected in 1976) which blocked soviet chessplayers from competing in the same tournaments as VK. Absolutely disgusting that this was allowed, and that FIDE did nothing to pressure the Soviets to end the embargo. Restraint of fair competition. The boycott lasted seven years, and kept Korchoi from playing against most of the world's best players. It just shows how much clout the Soviet contingent had, in dealing with FIDE, that 1)they could boycott Korchnoi and 2) keep their looney guy in the front row of the match. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | Everett: <The war in Afghanistan was continuing and a couple of <golf> states supported the Mujahedeen> Seriously, those IEDs at the time made Caddyshack look like a joke. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | ozmikey: <HeMateMe> Will reply on the 1978 WC page, as this discussion probably belongs there. |
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| Mar-05-13 | | SetNoEscapeOn: <That's a little different to giving constant abusive press conferences about it. Not to mention the fact that the Soviets in 1972 probably felt the need to "provoke in kind" after all Fischer's antics prior to, and during the early stages of that match!> Filthy! |
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Mar-06-13
| | HeMateMe: I think the Soviets dismantling Spassky's chair to look for some sort of inert electrical device is reasonable. Spassky had a lifetime postive record over Fischer, and suddenly he was losing games. Also, there was an American military base nearby. I can see where there could be suspicions that something wasn't kosher. If the same circumstances existed and an American was losing while playing in a Warsaw Pact country, the USA would have demanded to examine the chair, and possibly the table. Hey, it's not paranoia if you can PROVE everyone's out to get you. |
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| Mar-06-13 | | BUNA: <Everett:
I don't understand this. Botvinnik and Tal were Jewish. And to my understanding Korchnoi was not shunned due to his religion, but I can't say I know what goes behind closed doors in Soviet Russia. Strange.
And Petrosian was from Armenia, no? Not Russian by birth>I agree, it's kind of nonsense. According to the "Big book of Jewisch sports heroes" even Spassky and Smyslov had a jewish mother. Add Geller, Bronstein, Boleslavsky, Averbach, Flohr, Lilienthal, Polugaevsky and the Estonian Keres and you get only "outsiders" apart from Karpov. <tzar> Kasparovs family moved to Moscow when the ethnic tensions began to rise in Azerbaijan. I think it was in 1988. |
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Mar-06-13
| | HeMateMe: In this new book, GK specifically says that the older trainers he was working with told him to change his name from Weinstein to Kasparov, claiming he would get more tournament invitations. Who knows? Jewish people, their most talented science and tech people, left or defected in droves, to Israel and the United States. Russian Jews don't seem to feel they were getting a fair shake in the USSR. Perhaps more so than the "Jewish card", Kasparov said that there was a sort of built in resentment against him because he was far from Moscow, and wasn't part of "the clique". However, as his talent grew he was in pretty constant contact with Botvinnik, not just taking part in the MB chess camps, but also getting tips over the phone after a tournament, or getting an assist in this or that tournament invitation. Botvinnik had clout, and could open doors for a talanted young player. With MB on your side, and with the huge talent, he probably had nothing to fear, at least until he challanged Karpov. Kasparov's fears are probably excessive. lIke many great players, maybe he saw threats everywhere, just to keep sharp. |
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Mar-06-13
 | | AylerKupp: <RookFile> I didn't know that. So Fischer owed his participation in the 1970 Palma de Majorca Interzonal and subsequent world championship to every participant in the 1969 US Chess Championship rather than just to Pal Benko? That certainly makes sense and it seems fair that it wasn't just up to Benko to give up his place in favor of Fischer, although I'm not sure why the decision and method as to which player(s) to be sent to the Interzonal couldn't be simply left to each country's chess federation. In that year, for example, the USCF could have made its selection criteria to send the top 2 finishers in the 1969 US Championship plus a "wild card" representative selected by the USCF executive board. Not unlike the selection of Radjabov as the 8th participant in this year's Candidates Tournament by the Candidates Tournament organizing committee. With a Fischer fan like Ed Edmondson as USCF president it probably wouldn't have been all that difficult, particularly since Fischer had indicated that he wouldn't play in US Championships because he considered them too short, and he hadn't done so since 1967. So, knowing what was likely to happen, the USCF would have had plenty of time to change its Interzonal participation selection rules to accommodate Fischer. Still, it's hard to believe that each and every participant in the 1969 US Chess Championship would give up an opportunity to compete in the 1970 Interzonal, no matter how realistic the assessment that only Fischer had a chance to be one of the 6 qualifiers for the Candidates matches. But it is certainly possible and apparently that's what happened. Here is an interesting article, particularly the comments by GM Isaac Kashdan to the level of support that Fischer had, regardless of some of the difficulties in dealing with Fischer, supporting that conclusion: https://sites.google.com/site/carol.... I have come across several references, including this article, that both the USCF and Euwe had to "bend some rules" to allow Fischer's participation in the 1970 Interzonal, although I've never been able to find any details as to which rules had to be bent. As I said, I didn't think that with some adequate preparation that any rules would have needed to be bent. Here is another interesting article giving more detail on the attempts to get Fischer to participate in the 1969 US Championship: http://graeme.50webs.com/chesschamp.... Benko answers the not unexpected assumptions that he was paid to step down and give his spot to Fischer. |
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| Mar-06-13 | | BUNA: <HeMateMe> Does he actually mention at what age exactly he changed his name?
I have the feeling that I've seen some games of him when he was still called Weinstein, but I could be mistaken. |
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| Mar-06-13 | | Everett: <AylerKupp> Thank you very much for US Championship Zonal story link. Didn't know Fischer was concerns that he might not win it, and decided to table his WC aspirations for another 3+ years. |
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Mar-06-13
| | HeMateMe: <BUNA:> There might be nothing on this site under "Weinstein", his father's surname. All games are probably consolidated to "Kasparov". His dad died at age 7. I think he changed his name at age 12, just before or after he competed in his first USSR jr. championship. |
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Mar-06-13
| | AylerKupp: <Everett> I don't know that Fischer was that concerned that he wouldn't win the US Championship, after all, he was supremely confident of his abilities. But he wouldn't be the first person that wished to avoid "accidents" and his demands for both longer tournaments and unlimited matches are consistent with that desire since either would reduce the chances that someone other than the best player would win the event. What I don't understand is that, given his desire to be world champion, Fischer would jeopardize (eliminate?) his chances to do so by refusing to participate in the 1969 US Championship. After all, even if by some "accident" he didn’t win the US Championship, it's hard to conceive the circumstances under which he wouldn't finish in the top 3, which was all that he needed to qualify. But that apparently wouldn't be good enough for him, he <had> to win the US Championship if he participated in it. So, he was trading off the near impossibility that he wouldn't qualify for the 1970 Interzonal against the apparent certainty that, by not playing in the US Championship, he would be denied participation the WC Cycle for another 3 years. And that was consistent with Fischer's attitude on life. Above all, he was a man that would stand on principle, his principles, regardless of consequences. We each have to decide for ourselves whether that attitude is commendable or foolish, and none of us ever walked in Fischer's shoes. |
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| Mar-07-13 | | BUNA: <HeMateMe> Thank you for answering. |
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| Feb-25-21 | | thegoodanarchist: Aboot the five matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD5... |
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| Feb-25-21 | | thegoodanarchist: Nearly 8 years between posts!?!? About a WC match??? |
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| Feb-25-21 | | Petrosianic: Even longer than that, considering our posts don't actually say anything. |
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