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🏆 Aerosvit (2008)

  PARTICIPANTS (sorted by highest achieved rating; click on name to see player's games)
Magnus Carlsen, Sergey Karjakin, Vasyl Ivanchuk, Peter Svidler, Pavel Eljanov, Dmitry Jakovenko, Alexey Shirov, Evgeny Alekseev, Andrei Volokitin, Loek van Wely, Liviu Dieter Nisipeanu, Alexander Onischuk

 page 1 of 3; games 1-25 of 66  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. Carlsen vs Ivanchuk 1-0462008AerosvitE97 King's Indian
2. Onischuk vs Jakovenko ½-½312008AerosvitD47 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
3. Eljanov vs Svidler ½-½402008AerosvitA15 English
4. E Alekseev vs Karjakin ½-½462008AerosvitB91 Sicilian, Najdorf, Zagreb (Fianchetto) Variation
5. Nisipeanu vs A Volokitin ½-½392008AerosvitC42 Petrov Defense
6. Van Wely vs Shirov 0-1412008AerosvitD86 Grunfeld, Exchange
7. Svidler vs Carlsen ½-½222008AerosvitE15 Queen's Indian
8. Karjakin vs Nisipeanu 1-0402008AerosvitB48 Sicilian, Taimanov Variation
9. Van Wely vs Eljanov ½-½222008AerosvitD86 Grunfeld, Exchange
10. A Volokitin vs Onischuk 1-0312008AerosvitE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
11. Ivanchuk vs E Alekseev 1-0532008AerosvitE04 Catalan, Open, 5.Nf3
12. Shirov vs Jakovenko 1-0462008AerosvitE15 Queen's Indian
13. E Alekseev vs Svidler 1-0472008AerosvitC53 Giuoco Piano
14. Jakovenko vs A Volokitin 1-0522008AerosvitE94 King's Indian, Orthodox
15. Nisipeanu vs Ivanchuk ½-½442008AerosvitB40 Sicilian
16. Onischuk vs Karjakin ½-½442008AerosvitD47 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
17. Carlsen vs Van Wely 1-0612008AerosvitD43 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
18. Eljanov vs Shirov 1-0392008AerosvitA15 English
19. Svidler vs Nisipeanu ½-½192008AerosvitB10 Caro-Kann
20. Karjakin vs Jakovenko 1-0422008AerosvitC42 Petrov Defense
21. Van Wely vs E Alekseev 1-0362008AerosvitD31 Queen's Gambit Declined
22. Shirov vs A Volokitin ½-½192008AerosvitD56 Queen's Gambit Declined
23. Ivanchuk vs Onischuk ½-½192008AerosvitD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
24. Eljanov vs Carlsen 0-1822008AerosvitE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
25. Carlsen vs Shirov 1-0632008AerosvitD43 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
 page 1 of 3; games 1-25 of 66  PGN Download
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Kibitzer's Corner
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Jun-22-08  Atking: <square dance> Yes a good quote. Is there a similar comment from A Anderssen too? I read somewhere that Anderssen praised Morphy's incerdible talent in the same way (Compare to Steinitz). But I could be wrong.
Jun-22-08  square dance: <atking> here is the page where i get most of my chess quotes from:

i didnt find the quote you were mentioning, but i know anderssen praised morphy's play on more than one ocassion. however, i had thought that anderssen claimed steinitz to be better than morphy.

Jun-22-08  Atking: Thanks for the link <square dance>.
Jun-22-08  Rolfo: square dance, you really have some patience and endurance. Pono is a great player still within top 20. I thought Zoat should be comforted by Pono's play and results rather than all his resenting on young Carlsen.

..And the link to the great chess quotes, thanks

Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <zoat> Your Carlsen bashing based on his "luck" is pontless. That reminds me of a strong amateur who lost to a master 0-6 and said that the master was lucky in 5 of the 6 games :). Being "lucky" is a part of chess skills. "Luck" can be forced, and Magnus knows how to force it - better than any other top player.
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <square dance> <however, i had thought that anderssen claimed steinitz to be better than morphy.>

Yes, that's right. He said so after he lost to Steinitz in 1866.

Jun-22-08  ManuelMC: <alexmagnus> it also reminds me of a strong amateur coffee player when always lost to a master because of his unsound piece sacrifices that the master refuted and at the end, the master end up whith a better position, then the amateur player always said tha the master had luck to end up in those kind of better positions, and the true is that the master had better understanding of the game.
Jun-22-08  percyblakeney: The luck argument is often used against Carlsen, but it isn't that unusual among other top players to be "lucky". If Kramnik is singled out as player of a higher level it should also be remembered that he has been World Champion for many years, and soon may have the title again, while Carlsen only is 17. Still all top players are “lucky” now and then. Some examples involving one of my favourite players, Radjabov, only including games played within the last six months, with quotes from Chessbase:

Corus: <Anand could have claimed a draw by repetition by playing 63.Ra7!>

Corus: <The game would most probably have ended in a draw, but Gelfand failed to notice a small nuance and was mated>

Linares: <Alexei Shirov suffered a painful blunder loss against Teimour Radjabov>

Baku: <the American GM was hanging on until a blunder that came as an unexpected gift for his Azeri opponent>

Sofia: <Aronian blundered one move before the time controls [---] to throw away the full point against Teimour Radjabov>

There’s also for example the Linares games against Carlsen (blunder), and Topalov (missed win). Now if Radjabov played less creative and entertaining chess his games would surely contain less of mistakes. I’m certain that there are more dubious moves in his than in Khalifman’s or Andersson’s games. Still his way of playing has been good enough to get a career plus against Anand and Kasparov, and to be undefeated against Kramnik for the last 5 years. So lucky or not, I think both Carlsen and Radjabov will improve with time.

Jun-22-08  zoat22: <Square dance> You see to have given me nothing to reply to, the way you always do, and then you claim that you have refuted me... And if you claim that I am thought of as a troll by half the site, which is undoubtedly nonsense, what about you? In many places where you are posting, I read negative comments made about you...
Jun-22-08  zoat22: As this discussion is clearly off-topic I suggest that we end it now...
Jun-22-08  percyblakeney: Apparently next year's Aerosvit will be a rapid tournament, played in an airplane...

Jun-22-08  metatron2: <zoat22> i can see you are not interested in the discussion anymore, but if you are still interested in meeting me then we can meet on FICS tomorrow 19:00 GMT, or the day after 18:00 GMT (which is actually my preferable option).

regarding Carlsen's "luck":

as you probably know, every top player gets into bad positions every now and then, probably mainly because of opening preparations. Carlsen tends to do it less then most other top GMs but it happens to him too. obviously playing worst position is <significantly more difficult> then playing better or equal position, thus, most top GMs tend to loose in such cases. Carlsen however, tends to find resources even in such bad positions, thanks to his strong intuition and deep understanding of the game. <that is not luck at all>: but simply extremely strong play under much worst conditions, that in some aspects is even more impressive then winning thanks of better opening preparations.

similar things can be said about winning positions that are considered drawn: coming to think about it, even the initial position in chess is probably drawn under best play from both sides: thus, the player who will win that initial (drawn) position will usually be the one who understands that position better then his opponent, and that can be said on every position in chess, even those who seem simplified in the first place.

one of the many reasons Carlsen is now (unofficially) ranked #2 in the world is because he has such deep understanding and resourceful thinking that allows him to get best out of every position.

< because winning from lost or drawn positions involves help from your opponent more than "subtle maneuvering" the way I am sure that a 2200 player should know.> obviously winning positions that seem equal doesn't contradict the existence of subtle maneuvering, but maybe you do have to actually be a 2200 player in order to actually understand that..

Jun-22-08  zoat22: <metatron2> no, I do not believe that other GMs get into worse positions more than Carlsen... Anyway, I asked you if it would be possible to prove your identity to me, and also, for us to play on FICS I need to know your handle. Tuesday at 18:00 sounds fine...
Jun-22-08  metatron2: <Tuesday at 18:00 sounds fine...> OK we meet on Tuesday then, my handle on FICS is: metatrony.

do u have a FICS handle?

Jun-22-08  square dance: <zoat> should i take it that you're just ignoring this?<if you do then show me. if not you're either a liar or you dont know how to read.> are you willing to show me and everybody else where i claimed that pono was a footnote in general, rather than a footnote compared to kramnik? i would appreciate if you did that. or, if you cant, then maybe you would just admit to one of the other two options.
Jun-22-08  zoat22: <metatron2> No I do have a FICS handle... Ill create one... <Square Dance> I do not even need to dig up a place where you said that Ponomariov was a footnote compared to Kramnik because you and I never had an argument about Kramnik and Ponomariov, and also because I would agree that Ponomariov is now worse than Kramnik, although if circumstances had worked out differently he might not have been,,,,
Jun-22-08  square dance: ok, zoat. your last reply leads me to believe that it was probably some sort of cognitive problem that lead to you saying:<You say that Ponomariov is a footnote in history period (you did not always say compared to Kramnik)>. but i guess i won't be 100% sure as long as you keep ducking the question.
Jun-22-08  drnooo: For what it is worth, when years ago I said the only up and comer worth mentioning was Carlsen, it was not from any great insight into his games. It was from one and one only thing: Korchnoi. The great toe to toe slugger with Fischer, Tal's finishoffer, and very nearly world champ (and maybe more considering how he had to fight with Karpov under certain KGB circumstances): it was those four, five years ago when he mentioned only two players of any real talent: Carlsen and Morozovich, when that was enough for me. It would be interesting, in fact, to hear him compare Carlsen against Kasparov, Karpov, Fischer, etc, since he is the strongest player ever to go up against all of them.
Jun-22-08  square dance: i guess that makes korchnoi half right.
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <square dance> Did you pick Carlsen or Morozevich?
Jun-22-08  square dance: what do you mean by pick?
Jun-22-08  you vs yourself: hardliner's profile has the interview drnooo is talking about:

On the subject of chess genii: Korchnoi: "If to speak about modern chessplayers, Russian chessplayers, I consider Morozevich to be very talented, I feel that his talent became apparent in childhood, but I did not see him working hard. As for the chessplayers of the West, I liked Anand very much I played against him several times and I saw his improvement. Genius is a very strong word! Nevertheless, he was close to this definition.

Magnus Karlsen made good, even strong impression on me. It seemed to me that the main thing was not a chess aspect, but his extraordinary strong psychology and he uses psychological aspect of his mental power (something of that kind) over the board. I saw him playing a game against Shirov in the tournament where he did not shine out, and during the game it seemed that he should have struggle for a draw, he had a worse position, but he suddenly played an incredible combination. I thought that Shirov was really more psychologically vulnerable than other strongest grandmasters, the same thing felt Karlsen and he decided to risk: instead of playing for equalization, he posed such a problem for Shirov, which he did not manage to solve. However, speaking objectively, Shirov could have managed and could have won the game. However Karlsen decided that he could venture out with Shirov! Now he has one success after another, he takes great strides forward, and it seems even strange to me because he did not "glow" that much last year, I played with him in a tournament in Norway - nothing special. And now he beat down one after another in Khanty Mansyisk - well done! I'll repeat that we speak not only about a chess genius, but about human mental power, not only a chess one. I'm not a psychologist, so it's difficult for me to find an appropriate term. Young Karlsen is a mong such people."

If Karlsen keeps developing with the same speed, how do you think, when will he become number one?

"In view of your question, I'd like to remember Mikhail Tal's creative development. He really had a bright talent, he did not make an impression of a hard worker, but of a man with ingenious ideas. He had a strong psychology and he managed to defeat almost all modern grandmasters with rare and obscure exception - he lost to Keres and to me, and to no one else. Perhaps, even very likely that Karlsen will come across very strong people, who will not fall under non-chess influence."

What about Karjakin and his future?
"I will pass this in silence. I do not think that highly about Karjakin's talent." ouch

Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <square dance> Korchnoi said he thought there were only two talented chessplayers and you said he was half right. I just assumed agreed with him on one, but not the other.
Jun-22-08  square dance: well, i think morozevich is great, and i wish he would play in more top events, but to say there are two top chess talents in the world and name moro as one of seems kind of strange. i realize some people regard moro as a genius, but more so than, for example, the human Fritz, vishy anand? hmm, im not so sure about that one. i realize kramnik doesnt display the fighting spirit that moro does, but why does that make him less of a genius? i know some people will say that moro doesnt work as hard as his peers, but his laziness should not be held against them.

korchnoi is an entertaining guy to listen to, but maybe he should only be taken half seriously. ;-)

...and to answer your question: carlsen, of course.

Jun-22-08  zoat22: Korchnoi's comment certainly was strange, but yes, I have to agree with <Square Dance> that it would make more sense to include Kramnik or Anand as the second great talent.
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