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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Oct-27-17 | | Troller: In rd 6 Abdusattorov defeated GM Levin in what looked like a smooth win. Meanwhile Artemiev turned the tables in a miserable position and won also. Sjugirov managed to lose a piece early on against Triapishko (who?), played on for a while until finally resigning a hopeless position. 5 players share first with 5.5/6, top games today are Vladislav Artemiev - Arman Mikaelyan Alexandr Triapishko - Vadim Moiseenko Dmitry Gordievsky - Nodirbek Abdusattorov |
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| Oct-27-17 | | Pawn Dillinger: <offramp>: Great info on Reshevsky. Thanks. On a different tack, even though it's been beaten to death, a tournament like this only serves to remind me when the former Soviet Union was at its peak in 1972 with the Soviet School of Chess and with Spassky at the top and Karpov coming up and one solo American, Bobby Fischer, suddenly owned the world. His voice catching, Grandmaster Larry Evans once told me that Fischer reminded him of this weed, pushing his way through a cracked sidewalk in New York and rising up to the very top of the chess universe. And today, maybe this tournament contains some young, obscure genius who will fight his way up through the snake pits of Eastern European chess and rise to the same pinnacle that Fischer did. But for now the title belongs to some you genius from Norway. |
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| Oct-27-17 | | optimuswise: Artemiev crossed 2700 in liveratings! |
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| Oct-27-17 | | jphamlore: Let's be honest, we are in the middle of a 10+ year gap in chess talent with the one possible exception of Wei Yi, and even he is looking a bit shaky now. There's an increasingly difficult path for a player from the "wrong" country to play high enough rated players to get a rating to earn the big money in top closed events. To see what's missing, for the 2009 Wijk aan Zee, the winners of the A, B, and C groups were respectively Karjakin, Caruana, and So. Whereas for 2017, the two players with the most points in the Challengers section were two 29-year olds. In the long run, Abdusattorov has to qualify for World Cup I believe in the Asian zone with far fewer spots, not the European zone. |
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Oct-28-17
 | | PhilFeeley: <Pawn Dillinger:
Imagine the challenge a person has who moves to Russia, decides he wants to learn and play chess and has dreams of becoming a top player. Reality hits hard.>On the contrary, would such an environment be rich for the development of new young talent? Think of the training such a rich, strong talent pool would provide. |
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Oct-28-17
 | | perfidious: <offramp....That's why I have always felt that Leningrad/Moscow training (1939) was one of Samuel Reshevsky 's best results....> As it was one of Salo Flohr's, the more so after the latter's disastrous finish at AVRO, all this coming after the events which forced him from his native land and caused upheaval for so very many in that country. |
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| Oct-28-17 | | fisayo123: <jphalmore> Chatting @#$%e as usual. |
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Oct-28-17
 | | Count Wedgemore: <perfidious: As it was one of Salo Flohr's, the more so after the latter's disastrous finish at AVRO, all this coming after the events which forced him from his native land and caused upheaval for so very many in that country.> Yes. Flohr's unimpressive result in the AVRO tournament may certainly be explained by his difficult personal circumstances at the time. I have always admired Flohr's games, deeply. |
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Oct-28-17
 | | keypusher: <Pawn Dillinger: <offramp>: Great info on Reshevsky. Thanks. On a different tack, even though it's been beaten to death, a tournament like this only serves to remind me when the former Soviet Union was at its peak in 1972 with the Soviet School of Chess and with Spassky at the top and Karpov coming up and one solo American, Bobby Fischer, suddenly owned the world.
His voice catching, Grandmaster Larry Evans once told me that Fischer reminded him of this weed, pushing his way through a cracked sidewalk in New York and rising up to the very top of the chess universe. And today, maybe this tournament contains some young, obscure genius who will fight his way up through the snake pits of Eastern European chess and rise to the same pinnacle that Fischer did. But for now the title belongs to some you genius from Norway.> What a silly thing for Evans to get cracked about. In the 1950s New York was probably the second chess city in the world after Moscow. Capablanca out of Cuba, Anand out of India, or Carlsen out of Norway is more remarkable (though Carlsen had computers and the internet, which diminished the importance of where you're from). |
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| Oct-29-17 | | Pawn Dillinger: <keypusher: What a silly thing for Evans to get cracked about.> Wow. I should have told him how silly he was, especially as he was from New York himself and was entitled to feelings of his own. Too bad you weren't there to do it yourself. I disagree entirely. The Soviet Union didn't dominate chess in the days of Capablanca. And Fischer had next to no financial means, something Carlsen didn't have to worry about. By the time Anand won the title the Soviet Union was long gone. And I merely shared an anecdote. I wasn't inviting a compare and contrast. But to compare New York players in the '50s to the Soviet machine is laughable, as if it could somehow guarantee Fischer's success. Where were all the other New Yorkers playing in the Candidates or playing for the championship? |
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| Oct-29-17 | | jphamlore: Alekseenko tormented Artemiev with the Bishop pair until Artemiev cracked. K Alekseenko vs V Artemiev, 2017 There really is no young player out there other than maybe Wei Yi who can someday challenge for a spot where the money is in chess. |
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Oct-29-17
| | Count Wedgemore: <jphamlore: There really is no young player out there other than maybe Wei Yi who can someday challenge for a spot where the money is in chess.> You must be forgetting this guy:
Nodirbek Abdusattorov |
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Oct-29-17
| | keypusher: <But to compare New York players in the '50s to the Soviet machine is laughable, as if it could somehow guarantee Fischer's success. > Work on your reading comp, Pawn. I didn't say New York guaranteed Fischer's success. The "Soviet machine" didn't guarantee any Soviet player's success either. I said 1950s New York was a great place for a budding chessplayer. |
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| Oct-29-17 | | fisayo123: Congratulations to Nodirbek Abdusattorov who today becomes the 2nd youngest GM in history after gaining his 3rd and final GM norm in this tournament. He overtook the likes of Carlsen and Wei Yi in that list. |
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| Oct-29-17 | | SometimesGood: <Pawn Dillinger: Imagine the challenge a person has who moves to Russia, decides he wants to learn and play chess and has dreams of becoming a top player. Reality hits hard.> That what Anish Giri did and successfully I should admit. Even at this tournament basically alone sufficiently strong payer from a democratic country has won the tournament among all "the massive horde of strong anonymous players from the former Soviet areas." Food for thought. |
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| Oct-29-17 | | Pawn Dillinger: Reading comp is fine, Key: You wrote, not said, that New York was probably the second best chess city, not merely a "great place for a budding chess player."
In fact your wayward prose was directed 1) at belittling Larry Evans and 2) vaunted other GMs over Fischer (your words were that Casablanca, Anand and Carlsen were more remarkable than Fischer), though it was likely your inference, because it was not in words, was that the stories of those GMs, rather than the players themselves, were, in your words, more remarkable than that of Fischer. Clean up your writing, Key, because its is muddy at best. Your contentions remain indefensible. |
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Oct-29-17
| | keypusher: < Pawn Dillinger: Reading comp is fine, Key: You wrote, not said, that New York was probably the second best chess city, not merely a "great place for a budding chess player." In fact your wayward prose was directed 1) at belittling Larry Evans and 2) vaunted other GMs over Fischer (your words were that Casablanca, Anand and Carlsen were more remarkable than Fischer), though it was likely your inference, because it was not in words, was that the stories of those GMs, rather than the players themselves, were, in your words, more remarkable than that of Fischer. Clean up your writing, Key, because its is muddy at best. Your contentions remain indefensi
ble.>
Let's see if I can express myself clearly, then. I don't know if the insipid, watery sentimentality of your anecdote was really all Evans or partly your own contribution, and I don't care. What made Fischer great was mind-bending talent and an incredible appetite for work. Given those attributes, he would have been successful anywhere he lived, though I think he would have had a better chance of a normal life, integrated into his society, had he been born in the USSR rather than the USA. But, that aside, New York City in the 1950s was as good a place for him to be as anywhere, short of Moscow. |
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Oct-30-17
 | | Tabanus: The last round draw between the winner Alekseenko and no. 2 Paravyan is not in yet. Will it ever be? Some players have 9 games already. |
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Oct-30-17
 | | beatgiant: Besides the greatest of all time, the greatest never to become world champion, the most overrated and underrated players, and the probable results of hypothetical matches, we can now also debate the same questions about cities! My pick for most underrated: St. Petersburg/Leningrad. Remember Chigorin! My pick for a hypothetical scenario: Bobby's mom defects to the east and he grows up in Minsk, trained by Boleslavsky. He probably becomes World Champion by 1966 instead of 1972. Am I wrong? Flame on, people! |
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Oct-30-17
 | | tamar: My pick: Breslau.
Adolf Anderssen, Zukertort, Tarrasch, and Lasker all had early connections with this early hub of chess. |
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Oct-31-17
| | PhilFeeley: <bg> You are not wrong. But the Soviets would have had to deal with Bobby's paranoia. Not easy, even for western psychiatrists. |
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Oct-31-17
| | PhilFeeley: It's interesting to see Yan Liu, rated lower than Abdusattorov, finished even higher. Lots of strong, up-and-coming masters. I hope we see them in the major tournaments soon. |
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Oct-31-17
| | PhilFeeley: For a tournament where only one name is recognizable (Ghaem Maghami), check this out: https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/201... |
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| Oct-31-17 | | fisayo123: I recognize quite a few names there. The Iranian youngsters are among some of the most promising in all of chess. Tabatabaei, Maghsoodloo, Firouzja, Gholami and so on. Look at their ratings relative to their age and their performances in the Stars cup hosted there 2 years in a row which features some of the best GM's in the world. It's astonishing. I'm also pretty familiar with some of the slightly older ones like Idana Pouya and Pourramanazaneli (who is playing elsewhere right now ) |
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| Nov-01-17 | | Nosnibor: <offramp> Reshevsky was not the only non-Soviet player in the 1939 Leningrad and Moscow Training Tournament so was Keres of Estonia which only became part of the Soviet Union after the second world war. It could also be argued that Flohr was a non -soviet having been born in Czechoslovakia and then emigrating to the Ukraine which also became part of the U.S.S.R. later. In "The Middle Years of Paul Keres " part of a trio of books ,Keres writes "It was often said in the earliest part of my career that I conducted single,decisive ganes with an insufficient sense of responsibility and earnestness. But my participation in the training tournament at Leningrad and Moscow showed that such was the case with me in whole events.It was naturally my desire to make acquaintance with the chess-masters of the Soviet Union and measure my strength with them over the board and,finally,to get to know their method of play and their various researches into the game of chess." |
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