< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Mar-29-09|| ||patzer2: Maybe White can survive after 17. Qxf2 Kxh7 18. O-O Nd3 19. Nxc8 Qe4 20. Nd6
Nxf2 21. Nxe4 Nxe4 22. Rxf7 Rab8 23. a3 Ng5 24. Rd7 Rxe3 25. Nf5 Re5 26. g4 Ne6 27. Rf1 Re4 28. h3 b6 29. cxb6 Rxb6 , when Black's advantage (even with an extra pawn) is clearly not yet decisive.|
|Mar-30-09|| ||kevin86: Alternate puns: "Don't cry Wolf" OR "Reti or not,here I come!"|
|Mar-30-09|| ||WhiteRook48: brilliant...|
|Apr-08-09|| ||Hugh the Drover: Ok, I wanna revive a past idea, which went unanswered. We need a chess statistician. But first, a pun: The swamp was Reti and shallow with other hazards in Wolf's pawnnet. (I mean, look at Black's pawn line from moves 13-27 (reeds), a real snare, but if you have to explain a joke ...) Anyway.|
Does this game set a record for castling closest to enemy forces, as in White's 17th move (see my comment of 3/29/09)? Perhaps Mr. Krabbe could inquire. Is this a concept or idea of any quality? (I have also thought it would be neat to take a pawn count at the end of every chess game, purely for the purpose of statistics, much like the LOB (left on base) stat in baseball.)
|Jun-11-12|| ||Cemoblanca: I only say: "Der Wolf hetzt die Meute!!!" AKA Tightrope! ;0)|
|Feb-17-16|| ||jerseybob: With the dubious 9.c5?! Reti eyes b6. Wolf's 9..e5! eyes the king.|
|Nov-09-16|| ||Tabanus: Reti resigned after 25...Qb2+, game played 7 Oct 1922, according to Norsk Schakblad vol. 4, Aug-Dec 1922, p. 89:|
|Dec-20-16|| ||perfidious: <Once: But what is a wolf whistle? To me, a wolf whistle is a the whistle that (usually) men use to denote that a woman is attractive....>|
A notorious case of racial violence in the Deep South in 1955 centred round a wolf whistle supposedly made by a young visitor:
|Dec-25-16|| ||Paarhufer: Not everything printed is reliable.|
|Jan-27-17|| ||Paarhufer: By coincidence, I looked at this game at the same time as at the tournament in which it was played. Based on <Tabanus>'s find in <Norsk Schakblad> the game was shortened from 32 to 25 moves, and the additional 7 pairs of moves are given now as analysis. These moves are in my view no analysis, because if the game had been finished after 25 moves, there was little left to analyse. Therefore I begun to double-check the gamescore.|
The game received the first brilliancy prize in Teplitz-Schönau and was therefore frequently published. I have found it in newspapers and chess magazines from Czechoslovakia, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria and the Baltic states, and every time the game had 32 moves! Therefore, I made a brief comment about a month ago, but seemingly it wasn't noticed.
All of the sources I've found were published before the game appeared in the <Norsk Schakblad>. My earliest source is <Berliner Tagblatt>, 15 Oct 1922, where the game appeared with Mieses's comments. The most relevant source is <Deutsche Schachzeitung>, November 1922, pages 256-7, where the game was reprinted with Wolf's comments from the <Teplitz-Schönauer Anzeiger>.
I don't claim that the case is already closed, but currently I think 32 moves are almost certain. Reti probably omitted the remaining moves and send it with comments to <Norsk Schalblad>, where a hint for the additional moves could be lost in translation. Since Reti wrote for several newspapers and magazines, a confirming source is very likely to exist.
|Jan-27-17|| ||zanzibar: Interesting case.
Just to be explicit, NS notes that Reti provided the annotations. And it clearly states that White gave up after move 25.
Here's a direct link to the PDF:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6... (Tab's link is to a directory of pdf's).
See p90 for the final notes (in NO, on 2nd page of PDF).
A counter-argument against the longer game are that there are often games which get extended in publication to show the prettiest finish explicitly.
It sure would be nice to find that longer version published by Reti, if indeed it does exist.
|Jan-27-17|| ||zanzibar: OK, I played it over and can add a couple of observations...|
From 15...Nxf2! until 25...Qxb2+, Black is playing very, very precisely. By that I mean it's clearly well calculated, and essentially agrees with engine.
After move 25 it's an entirely different matter.
Now, if the extension were somebody's analysis that might be expected, as few writers will actually spend the time analyzing that a player does otb, as least not typically.
And after move 25 both sides begin playing "imprecisely", when compared to engine play.
These kinds of arguments are far from conclusive, but rather, suggestive.
|Jan-28-17|| ||Paarhufer: <z: A counter-argument against the longer game are that there are often games which get extended in publication to show the prettiest finish explicitly.> I think you observed yourself in the second post that the additional seven moves are no such pretty finish. Wolf begun realizing his overwhelming material advantage, and Reti played on for a more moves. That's exactly what I felt when I played through these moves for the first time, and that is why I started my own search.|
Let me describe what we have in different words: One player published the game with 32 moves at an unknown date, and it was reprinted in November 1922 in <DSZ>. There are lots of other sources in October and November 1922 all having 32 moves. And finally in December 1922, the other player published it with 25 moves. Wolf's 32-move-version in <DSZ> is unambiguous (his last comment is on 21.. ♘ef3+), but Reti's version was probably translated.
|Jan-28-17|| ||Tabanus: http://www.schack.se/tfsarkiv/histo... p. 171-172.|
Probably the 32-move version is from Wolf in Teplitz-Schönauer Anzeiger. Hard to say which is correct.
|Jan-29-17|| ||Paarhufer: <T: Hard to say which is correct.> If you speak of 100% certainty, yes. But for a smaller value, say 98%, I say no.|
Whoever believes that 25 moves are correct, must also believe in the following. One person has added the 7 pairs of moves, and all others except Reti have copied them. This person must have been Wolf himself, because he would not have copied the moves. So, Wolf played first a brilliancy, and then he added a random line for publication. And no one else got the real game-score. Absurd, isn't it?
Reti had good reason to conceal these embarrassing moves.
(Btw, within these moves, White moves both knights into opposite cornes of the board; unfortunately, they are not there at the same time - that would at least have made a nice picture.)
From the rules section of the tournament book: <Spätestens eine Stunde nach Beendigung der Partie haben beide Partner dem Turnierleiter oder dessen Stellvertreter eine richtige und lesbare Partieaufzeichnung abzuliefern. Die Partien sind Eigentum des ,,Deutschen Schachklub[sic] Teplitz-Schönau-Turn''.>
So, the tb should give the answer. As you maybe know, I gave my copy of that book away. But possibly <Olavi> can help.
|Jan-29-17|| ||Tabanus: <Paarhufer> CG uses to put up "Alternate scores" for the games. The 7 moves can be added as such via the Correction slip (or 32 moves and 25 as the alternative). The newspaper may have "helped" Wolf in adding the moves. The tournament book should settle the issue. I think <Pawn and Two> has it.|
|Jan-29-17|| ||Pawn and Two: <Tabanus> The tournament book shows 32 moves for this game, with the game score matching the 32 moves in CG. No indication was given the moves 25-32 are analysis moves. The last tournament book move analysis is after 25.Ng3: <Falls 25.Kh1, so 25...Qe2; 26.Nc8; 27.Qf3+ nebst Turmgewinn.>; and after 32...Bf5; <Es droht 33...Qh3+ 34.Kg1 Be4 35.Rh2 Qe3+>. White is shown as resigning after 32...Bf5.|
|Jan-29-17|| ||Tabanus: <Pawn and Two> Thanks! I asked CG to add the moves, and to keep the current Editor note.|
|Jan-29-17|| ||morfishine: Another irrelevant and failed game title
|Feb-16-17|| ||Sargon: The current editor's note definitively states: <Reti resigned after 25...Qb2+, according to Reti's own report in Norsk Schakblad vol. 4, Aug-Dec 1922, p. 89>. Therefore, the remaining moves were not part of the game. They are analysis.|
If Reti himself states that he resigned after Black's move 25, is his personal testimony to be deemed less reliable than the tournament book for some reason?
|Feb-16-17|| ||Tabanus: <Sargon> Yes, according to Paarhufer, and he may be right.|
Possible solution: add to Editor Note that the tournament book also has 26. Rc2 Qxb1 27. Re2 Be6 28. f4 g6 29. Na8 h5 30. Nc7 h4 31. Nh1 Qd3 32. Rf2 Bf5 0-1
|Feb-16-17|| ||Paarhufer: <Sargon> It's not a decision between Reti and the tournament book. It is a decision between Reti on the one side and Wolf, the tournament book and half a dozen further sources predating Reti's publication on the other side. And I have given additional arguments bla, bla, bla. You can simply read everything above.|
<Tabanus> Do you know why CG has not yet added the moves?
|Feb-16-17|| ||Tabanus: <Paarhufer> No, and I'm happy to let others settle this issue.|
|Feb-16-17|| ||Paarhufer: <Tabanus: and I'm happy to let others settle this issue.> Okay, I'll give it a try and suggest a more balanced editor's note.|
|Dec-20-18|| ||zanzibar: Lasker published a 32-move version of the game, fairly contemporaneously:|
Lasker annotates, but he just piles through moves 18-32 without comment, ending with "Wit geeft op.".
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