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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 24 OF 24 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Aug-23-20
 | | keypusher: <FORCED ADOPTION: I am an old guy and don't know how to play white in this game against an engine.However why not 17Rab1(not d1) followed by Bb2and attacking down the diagonal to neutralise the black bishop? Surely freeing the queenside pieces in this way would give white a fighting chance of a draw(against any opponent other than fischer!)> White is every bit as busted after 17.Rab1 as he is after 17.Rad1, viz. 17....Qg5 18.Bb2 Rad8 19.Qc2 Qh5 20.h4 Qg4 21.Ba1 Ne5 and the kingside crumbles. Stop trying to save 15.Rf1. It's not going to happen. |
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| Aug-24-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: At the end of the game why not 21.Nf3 ?
That would have been my impulsive move as white freeing the Queen etc
Can black still get a quick checkmate here?I can't see it but I expect it is there ! |
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Aug-24-20
| | keypusher: < FORCED ADOPTION: At the end of the game why not 21.Nf3 ?
That would have been my impulsive move as white freeing the Queen etc Can black still get a quick checkmate here?I can't see it but I expect it is there !> After 22.Nf3 Qh3+ 23.Qg2, then simply 23....Qxg2+ followed by 24....Bxc3 is crushing, since more material will go after 25.Rac1 Re3 26.Rf1 Rd8 to be followed by ...Rdd3. The engine slightly prefers 23....Qf5 24.g4 Qa5 25.Bb2 Bxc3 26.Bxc3 Qxc3 27.Rac1 and now ...Qxf3+, ...Qe3, and ...Qf6 all win. |
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| Aug-24-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: Sorry but some misunderstanding,In the game as it was ACTUALLY played I suggested after black's 20.Bn2+ to interpose 21.Nf3 and there is no way the black Queen can get to h3 or survive if she did get there as the white king is still on g2. |
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Aug-24-20
| | keypusher: <FORCED ADOPTION: Sorry but some misunderstanding,In the game as it was ACTUALLY played I suggested after black's 20.Bn2+ to interpose 21.Nf3 and there is no way the black Queen can get to h3 or survive if she did get there as the white king is still on g2.> Oh, my mistake, I thought you were suggesting 22.Nf3. If 21.Nf3 Qxd2+ 22.Rxd2 Bxc3 23.Rad1 Bxd2 24.Rxd2 Re3 25.Rf2 Rae8 with ...Rxf3 and ...Re3 to come. |
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| Aug-26-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: One last attempt to rescue white ! After black takes the bishop 18.........Nxg2 if white ignores this and plays 19.Nd4 blocking off both dangerous diagonals and later playing Rc1 and Bb2 surely when still a piece up this gives white a real fighting chance?
If this does not work I will give up on rescue attempts ! |
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Aug-26-20
 | | beatgiant: <FORCED ADOPTION>
How is White a piece up after 19. Nd4 <Ne3>? Looks to me like two pawns down. |
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| Aug-27-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: You are right beatgiant ! I was wandering...... |
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| Sep-01-20 | | Chesgambit: 11.Re1 Re8 12.Nf4 e6
11...Rc8 12.Ba3 Re8 13.Rc1 e5!
I think 10.Nf4 is better |
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| Sep-01-20 | | Chesgambit: 15.Nd4 is better avoid Nxf2 |
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| Sep-01-20 | | Chesgambit: 13. Rad1 14...Qd7 15.Nf4! |
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| Sep-01-20 | | Chesgambit: opps 14.Rad1 *** Qc8 (Qd7 Nf4?! Bxf1)
attacking on c3 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Rd8 f4 Rxd5 Qxd5 Bb7 Qd2 Qc6 Qd5 Qxd5 Rxd5 Bxd5 fxe5 Bxe5 Rd1 Be4 Rd7 Bf5 Rd2 Rc8 black is better because black have bishop pair white e3 pawn is weak |
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| Sep-06-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: yes after black's........ 14.Nd3 surely white can counter with 15. Nd4 blocking up the middle !
After... 15.Ne4 16.NXN PXN 17.Bf1 threatening 18.Pf3 attacking the support for the black knight white can at least hold out for a draw? Maybe Rb1 and Bb2 should precede this but I ask other Kibitzers what they think ! |
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Sep-09-20
| | keypusher: <FORCED ADOPTION: yes after black's........ 14.Nd3 surely white can counter with 15. Nd4 blocking up the middle ! After... 15.Ne4 16.NXN PXN 17.Bf1 threatening 18.Pf3 attacking the support for the black knight white can at least hold out for a draw? Maybe Rb1 and Bb2 should precede this but I ask other Kibitzers what they think !> I had SF10 look at this for three hours/63 ply. The eval was -3.32. So it's better than some of the other things we've looked at, but still hopeless. Main line FYI is 17....Bxd4 18.ed Qxd4 19.Bxd3 ed 20.Bb2 Qd6 21.Qc3 f6 22.Qxf6 Qxf6 23.Bxf6 Re2 24.a4 Rf8 25.Bd4 Rd8 26.Bc3 Rc2 27.Bd2 Bb7 28.Bg5 Rd5 29.Be3 d2, etc. |
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| Sep-10-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: Thank you keypusher for your time and patience.
In the mainline you kindly illustrated perhaps 17.Bb2 would be safer( as I suggested as a possibility above).I suppose white must at all costs avoid turning a supposedly weak isolated pawn into a raging monster passed pawn so the black knight can only be taken if the pawn goes at the same time.Bf1 can follow and maybe white can survive..........? |
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Sep-10-20
| | keypusher: <FORCED ADOPTION: Thank you keypusher for your time and patience. In the mainline you kindly illustrated perhaps 17.Bb2 would be safer( as I suggested as a possibility above).I suppose white must at all costs avoid turning a supposedly weak isolated pawn into a raging monster passed pawn so the black knight can only be taken if the pawn goes at the same time.Bf1 can follow and maybe white can survive..........?> This line (15.Nd4 Ne4 16.Nxe4 dxe4 17.Bb2) works better than 17.Bf1 at once. I downloaded SF12 (Ayler Kupp has kindly provided a link at the Stockfish page) and let it run for about five hours. It ended up with an eval of -2.47, 53 ply. But, unlike most of the lines we've reviewed, White is able to gradually simplify to an ending, albeit a lost ending. The SF main line is:
17... Rc8 18. a4 h5 19. Ra2 Nxb2 (surprising, but I guess you could say Bobby played similarly against Petrosian) 20. Qxb2 h4 21. Bh3 Rc7 22. Raa1 Bd3 23. Rac1 Rc5 24. b4 Rxc1 25. Rxc1 Qd6 26. a5 Rd8 27. Qd2 Bxd4 28. exd4 Kg7 29. gxh4 Qf6 30. Bg4 Rxd4 31. h3 bxa5 32. bxa5 Rd5 33. Qc3 Qxc3 34. Rxc3 f5 35. Rc7+ Kf6 36. Rc6+ Ke5 37. Rxg6 fxg4 38. Rg5+ Kd4 39. Rxd5+ Kxd5 40. hxg4 Be2 41. Kh2 Bxg4 Obviously there are lots of reasonable alternatives to those moves, but if you want to explore them I suggest you download SF12 for yourself and have at it. |
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| Sep-26-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: I can't help feeling in the example above that my natural reaction to 18.. h5 would have been 19.h4 saving that section from attack and a lot of bother later on.Maybe I missed something........ |
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Sep-26-20
| | keypusher: <FORCED ADOPTION: I can't help feeling in the example above that my natural reaction to 18.. h5 would have been 19.h4 saving that section from attack and a lot of bother later on.Maybe I missed something........> I'm done running analyses for you, FA. If you want to find out why 19.h4 doesn't save White, you're free to download SF for yourself. |
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| Sep-26-20 | | FORCED ADOPTION: I am an old fella and I don't know what is mean't by SF or where the stockfish page is to be found for the link you previously mention !
However I will take your word for it that even 19.h4 does not save white from eventual defeat.. |
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| Jan-07-21 | | MrJafari: Even Fischer's opponents were so smart! |
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May-09-21
 | | Messiah: Not bad! |
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| Feb-12-22 | | GlennOliver: "And White resigns. Fischer writes: "A bitter disappointment. I'd hoped for 22.Qf2 Qh3+ 23.Kg1 Re1+!! 24.Rxe1 Bxd4 with mate to follow shortly."" Does anyone see that short path to victory from Fischer's preferred continuation? The best I can find is another 20 moves or so for Black to force the mate. |
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| Feb-13-22 | | Brenin: <GlenOliver>: I agree: White can avoid immediate mate by blocking the a8-h1 diagonal with 25 Ne4 or Re4. He loses the Q (and more), and has a hopeless position, but at least mate does not "follow shortly". |
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| Jul-14-22 | | against: light square strategy |
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Feb-02-23
 | | Korora: After 22.♕f2 ♕h3+ 23.♔g1 ♖e1+ 24.♖xe1 ♗xd4 White can only delay the inevitable by four moves--and that's if White goes for a spite check and then gives up the ♕ for lost! |
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Kibitzing
sac: 15...Nxf2