< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-21-06|| ||pawntificator: Wow, this was rather complicated. I kept looking for something more forcing, but couldn't find it.|
I saw that black could take the rook with check if white played 23. fxe5. After the rook exchange, it gets becomes very difficult to see what might happen if black lets the pawn go and plays 23...Nec6.
Obviously white still has an advantage, but the lines diverge into such a large tree...anything could happen
|Jun-21-06|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: Boy, I must be out of shape. :( It's Wednesday and I've missed two this week already!|
|Jun-21-06|| ||Soltari: <EmperorAtahualpa: Boy, I must be out of shape. :( It's Wednesday and I've missed two this week already!> Same here, I got the first 2 moves, but missed the key one.|
|Jun-21-06|| ||babakova: I found it...|
|Jun-21-06|| ||Halldor: I missed it, thought 23.fxe5 ♖xf1+ 24.♖xf1 was the natural continuation, but I couldn't see anything there for White except a promising position, Black has many choises, 24...♘ec6 etc. Am I missing something?|
When I saw 23...dxe5 in the game I got the rest myself. 25.♗x♘ is nice, I can understand it at least.
|Jun-21-06|| ||Tariqov: <al wazir>sorry,I didn't see Qb6+.I'M the one who should look DEEPER:)|
I Did not see Qg5! after Ndc6 ,does that mean i failed??<chessgames.com>
|Jun-21-06|| ||itz2000: I think I'm stupid,
I don't get a continuation after this (which I found BTW)
If 25..Qxe7 what would white do to win?
|Jun-21-06|| ||Halldor: <itz2000> Then 26.Qxd4 wins a piece (because the e5-pawn is pinned).|
|Jun-21-06|| ||itz2000: Thanks, lol
I was looking at other answer Qg5 (in this varation I was like..... what da f*** they would just take this queen)
Thanks for letting me see that....
|Jun-21-06|| ||Demostenes: It was very easy to find the first move of the solution, but it didn't convince me because I couldn't find a forced win after
I found a different solution:
and white wins because black runs out of checks.
What do you think about this?
|Jun-21-06|| ||dakgootje: Rather tricky puzzle because of the Rf1-continuation. But therefore it was really nice|
|Jun-21-06|| ||apawnandafool: f5 is guarded pretty well, so why wouldn't the rook just scoot over to 23...Re6? |
after the pin at 25.Bxe7, this game, i think i would have resigned after trying to promote the pawn, a kind of last hurrah. but maybe that's just rude.
|Jun-21-06|| ||apawnandafool: that first statement was for <desmosomes> 23...Re6|
|Jun-21-06|| ||YouRang: Ugh. Somehow this struck me as being difficult for a Wednesday. :-(|
I noticed the back-rank mate potential (which didn't figure much into the solution). I even noticed that White had potential for attacking the e7 knight (between the a3 bishop and e1 rook) if I could clear the pawns, but I just didn't follow that idea far or thoroughly enough.
I looked at 23. fxe5, but didn't see the correct continuation in the 23...Rxf1 line.
|Jun-21-06|| ||Fezzik: I was really pleased with myself for correctly analysing this difficult position. The I find out that someone got it in less than a minute. Boy, I must be getting slow. |
|Jun-21-06|| ||kevin86: Missed this one:The movement of pieces along the black squares makes me think of checkers.|
|Jun-21-06|| ||Demostenes: <apawnandafool> Thanks for your commentary but 23...Re6 would push black into a lost position:
28.Qc3 (capturing the pawn would make the queen quite useless; here the queen protects the third rank) and white will win the exchange. Besides black seems to be deprived of any reasonable moves.
The pawn exchange on the e5 square is the key move of this combination. In case of the premature move of the bishop to h3 white might have problems:
31.Qg3 and the position seems to be drawn.
|Jun-21-06|| ||apawnandafool: <demostenes> why do you make such long lines? at 24.fxe5...my response would be an IMMEDIATE 24...Qc6+ (monkey sees a check)|
|Jun-21-06|| ||Demostenes: <apawnandafool> Just a response to a concrete move doesn't say a lot. That's why I try to show the whole variation I've 'discovered'. Besides this same 'check' might have quite different consequences in different lines (as I tried to show it in my poor analysis).|
|Jun-21-06|| ||apawnandafool: <Demostenes>
don't feel too bad about it, at least you're creative and are getting more out of these puzzles than i am. my point is just that your entire lines are refuted by a single move, the first ones in this case. so why go to the trouble? stop at 3 or 4. because if you stop at 3 or 4, then you're going to spend twice as much time concentrating on making the best moves than with 8.
i was once told an analogy. suppose you're a giant, and you'd like to walk from dublin to london. let's say that it takes 8 steps to get to london (as in your line 23-31 moves). if each step is off by just a fraction of a degree, then you'll end up walking to paris instead of london. and no one will listen to your dogmatic opinion if you say, "i <demostenes> have dispatched myself to london, and i am here at the eiffel tower. therefore, i have discovered that the eiffel tower is in london!!"
i sincerely hope you understand what i'm trying to relate.
|Jun-21-06|| ||euripides: <at 24.fxe5...my response would be an IMMEDIATE 24...Qc6+ (monkey sees a check)> the monkey may see it but that doesn't mean it's there. After 23 g5 Re6 24 fxe5 the bishop is still on g2 and I think Qc6 would be inadvisable.|
|Jun-21-06|| ||apawnandafool: lol! you're right.<doh!>|
|Jun-21-06|| ||percyblakeney: Definitely tricky for a Wednesday, fxe5 was the first move I looked at, but couldn't make it work and gave up trying after a couple of minutes...|
|Jun-21-06|| ||maloophet: <Halldor: I missed it, thought 23.fxe5 Rxf1+ 24.Rxf1 was the natural continuation, but I couldn't see anything there for White except a promising position, Black has many choises, 24...Nec6 etc. Am I missing something?>|
I think this might be the best defensive line for Black. It somehow prolongs the defeat because he doesn't get mated or lose a piece at once but your right, White has a promising position. 2 Bs against 2 Ns in an open board plus a passed pawn is winning..
|Jun-22-06|| ||psmith: I thought of the following fanciful variation:
23. fxe5 Rxf1 24. Bxf1!? Nf3 25. exd6 Qc6 26. Bg2 Nxd2 27. Bxc6 Nxc6 28. d7 when white has a good game (and in fact Fritz 5.32 comes to the conclusion that White is winning in this line too...)
Obviously not as good as the simple wins given above, but fun to think through nonetheless.
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