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Alexander Alekhine vs Jose Raul Capablanca
Savorin Cup (1913), St Petersburg RUE, rd 2, Dec-23
Spanish Game: Closed. Balla Variation (C88)  ·  0-1

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-12-07  Tomlinsky: <drukenknight> I'll never be able to look at Reti's Opening again without blushing.
Mar-12-07  setebos: That is just what we needed,Freudian psychobabble,mixed with gender politics. I suggest you add a dash of Marxism to the brew :-)
Mar-12-07  outplayer: <paladin at large><Capablanca's native-English language and social skills also helped him maintain a popularity in the English speaking world that Alekhine could not match.> Cubans speak spanish.
Mar-12-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: "This is from Fine's terrible book"

Exactly. Almost nothing in the book is true. Why would you believe this story? Fine gives no sources, dates or places. According to Moran, AA was in bad shape for several simuls in the forties, but I don't think there is any truth at all to the repeated "wisdom" about '35 match. Kmoch (director), Euwe and the seconds reported nothing in the way drunkeness. The press also appeared to silent up to a certain point. Yes, there were actually hundreds of people and reporters who attended the match. Would you have me believe that no one saw or reported a falling down drunk urinating on the floor? Or Alyehkin being dragged out of field into the playing hall? The rumors seem to start with the 21st game, sometimes called the "Incident at Ermelo" because AA arrived late for the game. I think that game, a turning point in the match, was really about something else and as DrunkenKnight says, something Euwe odesn't get credit for.

Mar-12-07  CapablancaFan: <paladin at large> Capa's native language was Spanish, although he did eventually learn to speak English and French. <Calli> Are you suggesting Alekhine didn't have a drinking problem or do you feel it didn't play a role in his match with Euwe? Euwe deserved his win , but Alekhine wasn't on his game. Many chess historians suggest alcohol maybe played a role. Do you believe this assesment to be unfair?
Mar-12-07  MrPatzer: <drukenknight: The sexual inadequancy part is quite true and well documented. Many of the best chess players of the day (Capa. Euwe, Alekhine) preferred to open from the q-side: 1 d4. This leads to many non confrontational and positional type of games that are considered femine strategies in nature as opposed to the masculine attack based: SPanish and Italian systems based on 1 e4.> Nonsense. REAL men play Bird's Opening. Everyone knows that.
Mar-13-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  laskereshevsky: <<MrPatzer: <drukenknight: The sexual inadequancy part.... Many of the best chess players of the day..... open from the q-side: 1 d4......considered femine strategies....opposed to the masculine attack.....SPanish and Italian systems based on 1 e4.> Nonsense. REAL men play Bird's Opening. Everyone knows that.>>

interesting..........
FINE in his book suggest the theory thats the matematical/analytical side of the chess, have a relation ( analogy?!).. with the sado/anal masochistic side fo the (mens) life......

( Ever U noticed the analogy/simile between the words: ANALOGY-ANALYSE-ANAL?!....)

if his right....thats mean the REAL man DOSENT play/like chess at all?!?!

.........( NO...imposssible!!!...several woman were ecstasyed by my "presence"...:-):-)....and im a GREAT chess appasionate.....)

OR, maybe im the: "exception proves the rules"........:-):-):-)

Mar-13-07  paladin at large: Children, children - I realize of course that Capablanca's native tongue was Spanish. However, he spoke (U.S.) American-accented English according to an English press story ca. 1919. He apparently spent enough time in his teens in the U.S. before attending Columbia, and while attending it, to develop this skill. New York was also his second home. This obviously helped him develop ties and friendships across the U.S. in a way Alekhine could never match.

A few of Fine's anecdotes are well sourced, and believable, but I do not believe his sweeping unsourced accounts of "AA lying drunk in the field before a 1935 match game" and the "urinating at the exhibition" (a different but unspecified occasion). At least not by themselves. I only mentioned them so someone who knew the history better could shed some light.

Fine by himself is clearly inadequate, but there must have been specific incident(s) to cause the 1935 notoriety.

Mar-13-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <but there must have been specific incident(s) to cause the 1935 notoriety.>

The "incident" was that Alekhine lost the match and a convenient excuse was his alcoholism, but there is not only no evidence for it, but, in fact, the opposite seems to be true. Hans Kmoch, the referee in the match , says

"Euwe's victory in their 1935 match for the world championship must not be underestimated, especially because for exactly half the match Alekhine totally abstained from alcohol."

Given that Alekhine was well ahead in the first half of the match, perhaps he made a mistake there.

Mar-14-07  ughaibu: Maybe it was the first half for which he abstained.
Mar-14-07  paladin at large: Reports of scandalous behavior by AA must have hit the press, because Capablanca made a general comment on it in an article congratulating Euwe on his win. One would think some research could clear this all up. I would have no trouble believing that whatever happened was (1) overblown in the reporting and/or (2) a bit of bravado by AA himself. Consider the story of swaggering Blackburne, who was said to have downed the whiskey tumbler of one of his simul opponents as he went by.
Mar-14-07  M. Shaune: In response to Calli-
If the implication here is that Alekhine played better when he was drinking then he must have been as drunk as a skunk when he played the 2nd match with Euwe.
Mar-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Still have an open mind, if anyone comes up with any of that elusive documentation.

Wait, think I see the problem:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Caissa1...

Euwe filled AA's glass with water and slid the vodka over to his side! A great "move", obviously.

Mar-15-07  M. Shaune: If only Capa had thought of it.
Mar-15-07  setebos: Capa`s vices were less "vaporous" than Alekhine`s. :-)
Mar-15-07  CapablancaFan: <setebos><Capa`s vices were less "vaporous" than Alekhine`s. :-)>

LOL! Capa's vice were a pair of pretty legs and high heels. There was a story about Cap during a match a beautiful woman walked in the room and cause Capa to drop his knight and lose the game, or something like that.

Mar-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  laskereshevsky: <CapablancaFan: There was a story about Cap during a match a beautiful woman walked in the room and cause Capa to drop his knight and lose the game, or something like that.> CARLSBAD 1929

Samisch-Capablanca

the capa's wife, with childreens, suddendly apparead in the tournament-room directly from the americas.....

in the spectatores crowd were was a nice, mawkish young lady, wich one was in "confidence" with the cuban champion...as RAUL saw that, jumped from the table in the trying to avoid the "contact" between the ladyes....before he moved the first "stuff" he found in the hand...losing a piece!!

has he camed-back, fighted like a lion for 62(!) moves....but a piece of disvantage against GM samisch was too much...even for CAPA

.........NIMTZOWITSCH won the tourn. 0.5 points ahead of CAPA...........

P.S.: ther is another version of the "incident" from the peruvian master CANAL......

Jun-11-07  Whitehat1963: Different kind of puzzle after 33. Rc1. Looks simple, but I wouldn't see that over the board too quickly.
Oct-15-07  notyetagm: Position after 33 ... ♕c4-c2!:


click for larger view

Another great example of how dangerous <PASSED PAWNS> are occurs after 34 ♖c1x♕c2?? b3xc2.

(VAR) Position aftr 34 ♖c1x♕c2?? b3xc2:


click for larger view

May-28-08  echever7: There's a story Botvinnik with Euwe givving a lecture in some factory in Soviet Union, where the workers were big fans of Alekhine. According to Botvinnik, Euwe, in move of great diplomacy, "acknowledged" winning the match because the 'vaporous vices'of his rival.
May-24-09  blacksburg: 33...Qc2!, very nice.
May-08-12  anjyplayer: Alekhine's pieces hardly crossed the 4th rank till the end. Beautiful capa !
Dec-14-14  TheFocus: Exhibition match game 2 played in St. Petersburg, Russia on December 23, 1913.

Capablanca would win by +2=0-0.

Aug-19-18  Ricosupercapo: 31 Bc4 Rd1 32 Bf7 Kf7 33 Rd1 wins a Pawn for White.
Aug-19-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Ricosupercapo> Check page 1 of the kibitzing. <Aug-17-05> <Benzol> pointed out 31. Bxc4 Rxd1 32. Bxf7+ winning a pawn, and several others discussed it.
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