Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Alexander Alekhine vs Hoelscher
Simul, 50b (1933) (exhibition), Amstelveen NED, Nov-03
Spanish Game: Steinitz Defense (C62)  ·  1-0



Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 41 times; par: 19 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 2,070 more games of Alekhine
sac: 11.Nd5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Hi, <lost in space>. My chessforum contains instructions for downloading Toga. I have found it indispensible in analysis.

Here is the Mom-and-Pop computer analysis after 16.Ne5, with <last move entered> emphasized. (Humans can improve at the end of the full computer variation.) The positions analyzed appear before their evaluation and best play.

click for larger view

[ply 15/69 time 19:28 value +M10]

16.<Ne5> Qh6 17.gxh6 Be8 18.Qc4+ Bf7 19.h7+ Kh8 20.Nxf7+ Rxf7 21.Qxf7 Nc5 22.Rxf5 Ne6 23.Qxe6 Rd8 24.Qf7 d5 25.Rg5 Ra8 26.Qxg7+

Best play appears to be mate in 10.

click for larger view

[value +M5]

16.Ne5 <Qxe5> 17.g6 Qf4+ 18.Qe3 Qh6 19.Rxh6 gxh6 20.Qxh6 Nxf2 21.Qh7+

After 16Qxe5, best play appears to be mate in 5, along the lines <lost in space> gave.

click for larger view

[ply 15/49 time 00:16 value +5.82]

16.Ne5 Qxe5 17.<Qxe5> Kf7 18.Qxf5+ Ke7 19.Qh7 Rxf2 20.Re1 Raf8 21.Rxe4+ Bxe4 22.Qxe4+ Kd7 23.Qxb7 Re8 24.Qb5+ Kd8 25.b4 a6 26.Qxa6 Ree2 27.Rh8+ Ke7 28.Qa4 Rxc2+ 29.Qxc2 Rxc2+ 30.Kxc2

After 17.Qxe5 (the simple response to 16Qxe5), there is a crushing win, but no immediate mate.

click for larger view

[ply 15/48 time 00:40 value +2.62]

16.Ne5 Qxe5 17.g6 Qf4+18.<Kb1> Qh6 19.Rxh6 gxh6 20.Qe3 Ng5 21.Qc3 Rae8 22.f4 Nf7 23.g7 Re2 24.gxf8Q+ Kxf8 25.Rc1 Rxg2 26.Qa5 Kg7 27.Qxc7 Be4 28.Qe7

White still has a win after 18.Kb1.

click for larger view

[ply 15/51 time 00: 36 value +1.53]

16.Ne5 Qxe5 17.g6 Qf4+18.Kb1 Qh6 19.Rxh6 gxh6 20.<Rxh6> Nf6 21.<<>g7> Rfe8 22.b3 Ng4 23.Rh5 Rac8 24.Rxf5 Bd7 25.Rg5 Re7 26.f3 Ne5 27.f4 Nc6 28.Qc4+ Be6 29.Qc3 Rf7 30.g3 Re8

The move 20.Rxh6 is not best play, but is likely enough to win. The previous variation shows the best move is a variant on <lost in space>'s move Qe3. The best follow-up after 20.Rxh6 Nf6 is indeed <lost in space>'s 21.g7.

Aug-29-08  YouRang: <malbase: 16. Rh7 does not work as Black has: 16-; Nf6.
17. g:f6 Q:f6 18. Qf6 gf6 19. Nd4 Rae8 and the game goes on.>

I think that after 16.Rh7 Nf6 17.gxf6 Qxf6, you overlooked 18.Qc4! d5 <forced> 19.Qf4 <threat: 20.Ne5 (or Ng5) & Rh8#>.

Black is helpless.

If, say, 19...Rfe8 <guard e5 and give K some room> 20.Ng5 Kf8 21.Rh8+ Ke7 22.Qxc7+ Bd7 23.Re1, and after a few more laughs it will be all over.

Aug-30-08  lost in space: Thanks <johnlspouge>, will try Toga. Was not aware that it is a public domain program.

I know what OTP, LOL and IMO means. What does "kudos" stand for?

Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <lost in space> kudos n. Acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement.
Aug-30-08  lost in space: muchos gracias, <chancho>
Aug-30-08  outplayer: What do you think of 7...f6 or 7...Be7?
May-03-09  WhiteRook48: Damiano's mate?
Jun-13-09  jsheedy: To sneaky pete: 16...Qxa2 [your analysis] slows the attack, but white plays 17. b3!, stopping mate and cutting off the Q. If 17...Qa3+, 18. Kb1 and black's threats end. If 17...dxN, 18. Qc4+, etc.
Oct-16-11  JoergWalter: The magic on the h-file will be stopped with

13. ... Nh7!!


14. Rh4 Rfe8 15. g6 Nf8!
and the attack is gone.

[16. Rdh1 Nxg6 17. Rh7 f6]
[16. gxf7+ Qxf7]
(Claus Dieter Meyer, 1997)

Aug-14-13  Karpova: The lengthy C.N. 8203 discusses the identity of Black in this game:

It turns out that it is far from clear, whether Black was Mindeno or someone named Hulscher or Hoelsder.

Oct-02-13  King Sacrificer: Here's an Edward Winter article about this game:

Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <karpova> Actually, none of those, the name turns out to be Hoelscher. Found in Euwe's chess column. See C.N. 8203 and 8291.

About ten years ago, <sneaky Pete> suggested that the player might be H G J Holscher, a fairly well known correspondence player. Might be, but as of today the forename is still unknown.

May-05-14  Karpova: <Calli>

Thanks for the update! Gnandt's reasoning in C.N. 8283 that the name was <Hoelscher> looks convincing.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: I can quite imagine that Alekhine got the name from Euwe's column. He scribbles down the score from memory and begins to copy the name from the newspaper carefully. Note that he prints the first four letters H-o-e-l, then realizes he is running out of room and scrunches scher in his usual bad handwriting, thereby causing 80 years of controversy! Still, how in the world did Hoelscher/Hoelsder get published in AA's book as Mindeno?
Premium Chessgames Member
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: *claps* A long standing error of chess history is finally correct. And the dups are gone too. "Mindeno" can now R.I.P.
May-15-14  sneaky pete: Correct? The game score is still wrong. Both Alekhine's manuscript and the publication in <Tijdschrift> (November 1933, page 297) give 2... Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 .. etc.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <sneaky pete> The name is finally correct. I'll let you submit the score correction ;-).
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: Keep some incorrect information, or it won't seem like an Alekhine game!
May-15-14  RedShield: Just as there'll always be Paris, this will forever be the Mindeno game. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <this will forever be the Mindeno game>

Looking at the scorecard, I guess CG thinks so too.

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <tamar: Keep some incorrect information, or it won't seem like an Alekhine game!>

You've got it all wrong--it was the gremlins that did it!

May-21-17  zanzibar: Fantastic link by <Stonehedge>, it settles the issue for me (even better than Winter really, since I can see the contemporaneous ref).

I wonder if Mantia even published scans of Alekhine's notebooks?

I also wonder what's the story of origins of the lot he discovered them in?

As for the <legend vs. fact>, this is a true dilemma -

I found this game via Fine's Middle Game book, where it is uncredited who played Black. But <MillBase> gave it as Van Mindeno (with the wrong year - 1938).

So, when originally looking on <CG> for the game I couldn't find it. Frustrating. Luckily, I found the Winter article via google.

It would be nice to have an entry in <CG> that at least pointed to this game under <Van Mindeno>. I have some opinions on this - like other famous historically inaccurate games, the "wrong" info is memorialized in the literature.

<CG>, if it wanted to make the effort, could be (almost) everything to (almost) everybody.

I.e. have the fake/wrong games, with a PGN tag notifying people they're fake/wrong. Such games don't go into any statistics - but they serve as stub (or fully playable) games readily found doing searches.

And they then follow the user to the "correct" game - like here.


May-21-17  TheBish: Funny how things work sometimes. I just recently discovered a fantastic combination to finish the game in a tactics trainer program. I thought it must be from a famous game, but you never know. So today, I'm looking at the Recent Kibitzing on this site's homepage. I see an Alekhine game (this one), which I figure must be a good one, so I click on it. I decided to play Guess the Move!, as I need practice heading into a tournament next weekend. As I get near the end, it dawns on me that things are shaping up to resolve into the above-mentioned combination I recently encountered in the tactics trainer! So that didn't hurt my score at all, knowing the finish! (37, par is 19.)
Premium Chessgames Member
  Messiah: Amazing game!
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 5)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: EXHIBITION. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
"Lost In No-Man's-Land".......
from king bee's favorite games by king bee
yCommunity P-K4 Combined by Fredthebear
by fredthebear
G120: My Best Games Of Chess 1924-1937 by A. Alekhine
from g-pawn/file demolition after Fredthebear's ECO C by fredthebear
November, p. 152 [Game 147 / 5662]
from American Chess Bulletin 1933 by Phony Benoni
Fawn Pawns
by trh6upsz
Attacking Themes
by trh6upsz
An excellent way to play the white side of the Philidor
from Georgiabill's favorite games by Georgiabill
The unique game with unique sacrifice and win
from KagamiSorano's favorite games by KagamiSorano
Philidor, Alekhine style
from E4 opening rep. by samhamfast
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection IV by FRoeten
Game #120
from My Best Games Of Chess 1924-1937 by A. Alekhine by nakul1964
GAME 220
from My Best Games of Chess 1908-1937 by smarticecream
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection IV by PinkLedDoor
Game collection: 6
by p2c

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us

Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC