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Kurt Paul Otto Joseph Richter vs Alexander Alekhine
Munich (1941), Munich GER, rd 4, Sep-10
Trompowsky Attack: General (A45)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
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Feb-16-04  drukenknight: another tromposky. This is a good endgame to study. Richter knows enuf to try to get the R to give check w/ Rf8; but I think in this case he has to give a lateral check from h3.

there is an endgame page which explains all this. white's K is two files away from the pawn which means he needs to stop the pawn from getting to the fifth rank.

It's a good exercise in knowing when to use the lateral check and when to use the check from the rear.

Feb-16-04  drukenknight: this guy has a website dealing with these endings. On this particular page he explains how to count the spaces betweeen K/P and R/P to prevent defeat. Very interesting see if it applies here.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/home...

Feb-16-04  drukenknight: on move 59 it looks like black will have enuf room between R/p. there is two files between his K and the pawn so there needs to be 4 ranks of separation between his R and the pawn. Need to put this on computer to validate. I'm thinking he should start with the check on move 59.
Feb-16-04  drukenknight: Can you hold a draw with ALekh??

it appears to be draw going quick analysis. About the only thing to remember is that rule about K/R spacing (See webpage) and that if black blocks the check with his R his K will wind up in front of his own pawn: that wins. That like all you have to know! Like Two freakin rules! Chess is easy huh:

starting w/ move 59:

1. Re3+ Kf5
2. Re1 Rd4
3. Kc3 Re4
4. Rd1 Ke5
5. Rd8 f5
6. Re8+ Kf4
7. Rf8 Ra4
8. Kd3 Rb4
9. Kc3 Re4

Mar-05-04  gilbertv: Are you taking to yourself exclusively these days drunkenknight?
Mar-06-04  drukenknight: Indeed I am quite taken w/ myself Gilber.
Mar-06-04  bumpmobile: Incidentally, why do people insist on calling you druNkenknight. Though I have no idea what it means, the name is drukenknight.
Mar-06-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: He *meant* to type "drunkenknight" when he signed up... but you see... he was drunk. ;-)

Incidentally, do you know what a "drunken knight" is? It's an opening variation where a knight gets chased all over the board, such as 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 etc., and the most famous of all, Alekhine's Defense 1.e4 Nf6

Mar-06-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: By the way, I think that DK's whole line is no good, because 59.♖e3+ ♖e5 wins for Black, as 60.♖xe5 ♔xe5 and Black can get in front of the pawn without opposition.
Mar-06-04  drukenknight: [sigh] again I am forced to correct the record.

Pt. 1. No a drunken knight is not that, it is a knight that starts off in the unnatural position on the rim, e.g. Nh3, Na3, Na6 or Nh6. While they dont look right, sometimes you can make use of them in closed positions such as Benoni, Dutch.

Pt. 2 Yes Sneaky is correct on epistymology of "drukenknight"

Pt. 3 While Sneaky brings up a good pt about end game play, white has no intention of exchanging rooks which would be disastrous, I think it should go:

59. Re3+ Re5 (the sneaky variation) 60. Rb3 f5 61. Rb6+ Kd5 62. Rb4 ...?

Mar-06-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: I revise my analysis.

59. Re3+ Kf5 60. Re1 Kg5 61. Rg1+ Kh4!
62. Rf1 f5 63. Kc3 Kg3 64. Kc4 Re5
65. Kd4 Ra5

analysis courtesty of http://chess.jaet.org/cgi-bin/dtx?f...

It is indeed won for Black in all variations. So it's not so easy to draw Alekhine after all.

Mar-07-04  drukenknight: I went to that website link you give and all I can say is what the Fahhhh....????
Mar-07-04  drukenknight: Hey Sneaky, any decent club player can see that 60 Re1 is a duffer's move designed to rig the entire analysis in ALek's favor. Why dont you ask those aliens on whatever planet that website is from to comment on:

59. Re3+ Kf5
60. Kc3! Kg4
61. Re4+ Kf3
62. Re1

Mar-08-04  Cyphelium: After 59. Re3+ Kf5 60. Kc3 Kg4 61. Re4+ Kf3 62. Re1 f5, how can white defend? The king is cut off and there are just a bunch of checks left before the f-pawn will queen. For example 62. Rf1+ Ke2 63. Kc4 Re5 64. Ra1 f4 65. Kd4 Re8 66. Ra2+ Kf1 67. Ra1+ Kf2 68. Ra2+ Re2 - + or whatever.
Mar-08-04  drukenknight: okay Cyph: 62...f5 63 Kc4

this endgame features very curious K maneuvers, not all what we normally expect from R/P endgames, but this is understandable due to the K being a little too far from the pawn when the endgame begins.

Back to you Cyph....

Mar-10-04  Cyphelium: <dk> (59. Re3+ Kf5 60. Kc3 Kg4 61. Re4+ Kf3 62. Re1 f5) On 63. Kc4, then 63.- Rd2 looks alright. 64. Rf1+ Rf2 or 64. Kc3 Re2 65. Rf1+ Ke4 wins.
Mar-10-04  drukenknight: Cyph: what continuation do you see after:

59. Re3+ Kf5
60. Kc3 Kg4
61. Re4+ Kf3
62. Re1 f5
63. Kc4 Rd2
64 Kc3 Re2
65. Rf1+ Ke4
66. Ra1

Mar-12-04  Cyphelium: <dk> After that I suggest 66.- f4. I don't see how white can defend against f4-f3-f2 etc. Putting the rook on the last row doesn't help: 66.- f4 67. Ra8 Ke3! and the f-pawn will reach f1. Perhaps you thought about 67.- f3? which actually is a draw after 68. Re8+ Kf4 69. Rxe2 fxe2 70. Kd2 Kf3 71. Ke1.
Mar-12-04  drukenknight: dont worry about my moves worry about your moves, what comes after: 66f4 67. Ra8 Ke3 68. Re8+ ?
Mar-12-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: What are you knuckleheads talking about? I already showed you the tablebase analysis, and tablebase is never wrong.

At the end of DK's long line <59. Re3+ Kf5 60. Kc3 Kg4 61. Re4+ Kf3 62. Re1 f5 63. Kc4 Rd2 64. Kc3 Re2 65. Rf1+ Ke4 66. Ra1 f4 67. Ra8 Ke3 68. Re8+> Tablebase suggests 68...Kf2 (duh) and the pawn is coming home. It's a pretty basic "king is cut off" R+P ending, isn't it?

Now here's how you use tablebase. Here's the position after 68...Kf2

http://chess.jaet.org/cgi-bin/dtx?f...

Whatever move you want White to play from there, click on it. Then you see a bunch of moves that Black can play. The GREEN moves are the best moves. Yellow moves are just as good as green, except that they're slower.

Mar-12-04  drukenknight: Explaining how the web site works does help, but still I do not see any green moves, I do not see any yellow moves. All I see are moves that are highlighted in blue such as Rd8, Rg8 etc. I guess they are clickable, Then I see a column that says:

DTC DTM DTZ and DTZ50

and there are numbers in some or all of the columns. What does that mean? Am I supposed to use the column to choose my move? What does dtc, dtm, and dtz mean? Is there a help section for the website? I wish these websites could explain themselves or provide help link.

Mar-12-04  drukenknight: Oh by the way, yes it does look the game is lost in theory since the K is cut off one too many files over. Most of these endings, blacks R will block the R check and whites K will not be able to get over to catch the pawn. Hence the white K is too many files away.

But that's theory and I want to see for myself that the game is really lost.

Mar-12-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: When I say "green moves" I mean moves that are on a row of the table that have green color.

DTM = Depth to Mate (as in "mate in 11")
DTC = Depth to Conversion (# of moves before it converts into a different type of ending. E.g., in this case ♖♙v♖ will soon turn into either ♖♕v♖ or ♖v♕.)

Then there are two columns to impliment the 50 move rule:

DTZ = Depth to Zeroing Move (how many moves before either a capture or a pawn-push takes place) DTZ50 = Like DTZ, but treats >50 moves as drawn

So you see, in the diagrammed position here http://chess.jaet.org/cgi-bin/dtx?f... it's mate in 25 moves no matter what White does.

Mar-12-04  drukenknight: okay would it be fair to simply click on the move listed at the top, as the "best chance" or at least drags it out the longest?

I agree the game looks lost so in that case the question becomes where did he lose the game?

Mar-12-04  drukenknight: How Dumb is your computer Program, chapter 37.....

well that explains a lot, that depth to mate is 25 moves no matter if he plays 69 Rd8, 69 Ra8, 69 Rg8 69 Rany8...

Funny. I kept running through the crappy chesslab computer. I would play e..g 69 Rg8 and after x moves I would see problems so I would go back each move and see if the computer would choose the same move. Lo and behold every time I came back to move 69 the freakin computer would choose a different move? NO kidding, I mean I think I went through four or five sequeences and every time I went back up the line to move 69 I kept getting a different move!

Sheesh. Freakin chesslab computer, I hate you!

Okay what does that "Legend: optimal, slower, etc." on the bottom of the page mean? I have nothing to correlate that to. Is there supposed to be a symbol or somethign that stands for optimal? Cause otherwise it's just a string of words w/o meaning.

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