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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: I don't see that anyone has mentioned the real solution. I don't have a program but I bet White forces victory in all variations with 18.Ra4!, creating the threat of 19.Rf6!! I see no defense. Not 18.Rf6! because of 18.Qg4. That's the point of Ra4. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: thats 18 Rf6?? because of Qg4 |
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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: <ckr> is right. Black has resources after white's mistaken 18.gxh3? |
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| Mar-25-06 | | question marks: <goldenbear> what about 18. ...Bf5 |
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| Mar-25-06 | | durnstein: goldenbear: Your variation is strong, but only because of Black's horrible 16 ... Qd7. Only that mistake sets up the fork your attacking line depends on. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: hmmm don't know. maybe doesnt work |
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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: <question marks> Bf5 g4! Bg6 Rf3 I guess. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | goldenbear: <durnstein> I agree, 16. Bxg7! was correct, forcing this line due to the need to defend f5. That is, I think to save the tempo for Bf5 loses to RxB |
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| Mar-25-06 | | khense: Final position: I thought black might try 24...Qd5+, 25 Kh1 F5, however after 26 c3 black's queen will not be able to defend h8. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | ckr: <durnstein: 16 ... f6 17 Qxh3 e5 (NOT Bxh6)> e5 ? If you don't play 17...Bxh6 then White would not hesitate to take yours 18.Bxg7 - If you recapture with the knight you can't defend f6 after 19.Qh6 but you have to move something 
click for larger viewany move Nxf6+
If you capture the bishop with king 18.Bxg7 Kxg7 19.Qg4+ and squeak to the other side with 19...Kf7 20.Ng5+ 
click for larger viewone more step to the queenside and you are mated so back to the corner (but 21...Kf7 or 21...Kf8 and 22.Ne6+ (discovered) and the knight grazes on Queen) So 19...Kh8 would have been best
20.Qg4+ Kh8 21.qh5+ Kg8 22.Qg6+
click for larger viewand neither 22...Ng7 or 22...Kh8 look appealing. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | McCool: It's kind of funny how the rook on a1 made its way to h6 without any interference. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | ckr: And ... none of the lines would be as strong without 16.Ne4 |
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Mar-25-06
 | | Sneaky: <WannaBe: <Sneaky> Shredder 9 likes: 16. Nxe4 Bxh6 17. Qxh6 Qd7 18. gxh3 !e6 19. Qh4 f5 20. Ng5 1.33 on inf. analysis.> That line is nonsense. After 18...e6 we have this position 
click for larger viewIt's mate in 4 now with 19.Qg5+ Kh8 [19...Ng7 20.Nf6+ Kh8 21.Qh6#] 20.Nf6 Nxf6 21.Rxf6 (any) 22.Rh6# (courtesy of Sigma Chess) |
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Mar-25-06
 | | WannaBe: <Sneaky> I believe you are correct, the line may have changed while I was typing it... 16. Nxe4 Qd7 17. gxh3 f6 18. Rf2  1.81 |
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Mar-25-06
 | | al wazir: <chessgames.com>: Okay, we've banged our heads on this puzzle long enough. Tell, us, what was it about this game and this position that persuaded you that it would be suitable??? |
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| Mar-25-06 | | yataturk: <al wazir: what was it about this game and this position that persuaded you that it would be suitable> I think CG simply runs a chess program to find a move that breaks the tie. The number of moves after the tie breaking move determines the day. It is purely mechanical.. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | Knight13: This puzzle had pulled my hair out. |
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Mar-25-06
| | al wazir: <yataturk: I think CG simply runs a chess program> You mean a piece of software
was responsible for this atrocity?
Why don't we just use an engine to solve each day's puzzle then, and eliminate the middle man??? |
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| Mar-25-06 | | blingice: Here's me vs. Chessmaster (with Chessmaster assisting me) <[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "3-25-2006"]
[Round ""]
[White "blingice"]
[Black "Chessmaster"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "oft "]
1. Nxe4 Qd7
2. Bxg7 Nxg7
3. gxh3 f6
4. Rae1 Rac8
5. c4 d5
6. Nc3 e6
7. cxd5 exd5
8. Rxf6 Rce8
9. Rxe8 Rxe8
10. Qg5 Qxh3
11. Qxd5+ Kh8
12. Ne4 Qe3+
13. Kg2 Qe2+
14. Rf2 Qg4+
15. Ng3 b6
16. Qc4 Qg6
17. Rf4 Re2+
18. Kh3 Qe6+
19. Qxe6 Rxe6
20. Rh4+ Kg8
21. b4 cxb4
22. Rxb4 Re3
23. d4 Nf5
24. Kg4 Nxg3
25. hxg3 Re2
26. Kf5 Kf7
27. d5 Rf2+
28. Ke5 Ke7
29. b3 Rf3
30. g4 Re3+
31. Kf4 Rd3
32. Ke4 Rg3
33. Kf5 Rf3+
34. Kg6 Kd6
35. Rb5 Kc7>
White has two passed pawns, three total, to black's two NON passed pawns. This is when 1=16 in this game.
Chessmaster breaks from Tseitlin's line on black's 4th. |
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| Mar-25-06 | | yataturk: <al wazir:You mean a piece of software was responsible for this atrocity?> I believe so.. I'm sure the CG people double check to make sure that the puzzle is valid (i.e., there is a winning move). On the other hand I don't think they analyze the game deeply and evaluate it as humans for a human audience. |
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Mar-26-06
 | | chessgames.com: <al wazir: ... Tell, us, what was it about this game and this position that persuaded you that it would be suitable???> I have no idea what that talk about "chess software" to come up with the puzzles is about. We get our puzzles from many sources, but this one comes from the excellent book "Test Your Chess IQ" by August Livshitz. After 15.Bxh3 most players would play 15.Qxh3 without a second thought. Better players would look at 15.gxh3 and maybe even a zwichenzug like 15.Bxg7, but in fact the only move which gives White a clear winning advantage in all variations is 15.Nxe4!! Even computers have great difficulty assessing the position. What more can you want out of a puzzle? Of course, it's very hard; it is Saturday, after all. The only reason why we didn't save it for Sunday is because the idea of bringing another piece into the attack is not so surprising. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | monad: <chessgames.com: What more can you want out of a puzzle? > Exactly! This was one of the most interesting puzzles I have seen. Fascinating stage of the game. In fact, when I woke up this morning I actually had the entire position in my head! That has never ever happened before. I just tested it and it was correct. Goes to show how much I liked it. And even this morning on first waking I still did not think it was right to swap Bishops on -g7- and that an immediate 17.gxh3 f6 18.Kh1 is slightly better. Well, what do WE know :-)
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| Mar-26-06 | | goldenbear: <ckr> Like I said, 16.Bxg7 is clearer, transposing I guess. |
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| Mar-26-06 | | durnstein: ckr: good points. A couple of other lines:
16 Nxe4 f6
17 Bxg7 Nxg7 (f6 still 3x guarded)
18 Qh6 b6
19 gxh3 d5
Or:
16 Nxe4 f6
17 Bxg7 Nxg7
18 gxh3 b6
19 Rae1 d5
Black seems to survive, with equal material. Flaws? Improvements for White? |
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| Mar-27-06 | | ckr: <durnstein> getting in d5 some how would have been good.
But after 16...f6 white is going to grab the white bishop,
17.Qxh3; White does not have to take the bishop on g7 as
18.Rf4 or 18.Rf3 will pin it before capturing it which will
also pin the knight that recaptures. In consideration of this
all the engine's, (Crafty/Tiger), say 17...Bxh6 18.Qxh6. Other
lines ar not presented.
So from this position and not playing 17...Bxh6:
click for larger viewSince it's apparently a race to how fast white can bring
attackers against the king/bishop/power up with the rooks and
all that it might be practical to put the question to white by
17.Qc8 - Is your attack so sound that you can loose a tempo moving
your queen to g3 or h4?
White immediately must decide, loose time, exchange queens or
ignore him and develop my rooks knowing he will play QxQ. Sometimes shifting a decision to the other side makes him chew time
in it's evaluation.
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