chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Henry Edward Bird vs NN
Unknown (1869)
King's Gambit: Accepted. Rosentreter Gambit Bird Gambit (C37)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more Bird/NN game
sac: 13.Qe8+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can display posts in reverse order, by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page and checking the option "Display newest kibitzes on top."

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-27-12  stst: Yes, easy smothered play - Qsac:
13.Qe8+ either NxQ or RxQ (forced)
14.Nf7# K has no escape square.
Aug-27-12  stst: <Surely this puzzle should have started one move earlier, i.e. on move 12?> -- Agreed, but still it's too easy & natural to have this development.
Aug-27-12  stst: <May I differ? This is not easy. It is hard, even very hard. It is of course, simple (one move and the trap is sprung), but that is something quite different.

If you want to know how hard a puzzle is, you need to ask someone who did not get it. And in that respect I am your expert. I tried all kinds of desperate ways of killing off my queen, including Qe8, but never saw why it was the key. So can we reclassify this one as “very simple, but almost impossible to spot”?

Well, well... depends on how you view it - in this case, it's both simple and easy, and very natural, after Qe8+, the only response is to kill the Q with R or N, then Nf6+ is natural. Not easy indeed to understand why it's not easy.

On the other hand, something could be very simple, but never easy, like the open problem of Goldbach:

Every even number = sum of two primes.

(Prove or disprove, not easy at all either way.)

Simple enough, but has lured math world over two hundred something years!!!

Aug-27-12  PaulLovric: is it a smothered mate or Phillador's something?
Aug-27-12  Castleinthesky: While this is a good Monday puzzle. For once, I saw the solution as soon as I looked at the puzzle. Maybe getting old does have its advantages.
Aug-27-12  gars: Let's praise the Lord for Mondays!
Aug-27-12  shaikriyaz: I once read it here some kibitzer mentioning a kasparov quote <once your knight reaches the d3/d6 square, its only a matter of time before you win>
Aug-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: I remember some quote about a Knight on the sixth means your game wins itself, but here's a counterpoint:

"A final point to make about overrated knights has to do with knight outposts on the sixth rank. Traditionally, knight outposts on the sixth rank have been considered towers of strength, and barring a quick exchange of the infiltrating steed, the defence was supposed to crumble in short order. To be fair, knights on the sixth, if well-secured, can be very powerful. But players and annotators today are aware that this is just a probabilistic advantage, not a hard-and-fast rule."

John Watson, "Secrets of Modern Chess Strategy"

Aug-27-12  bachbeet: Got it. Interesting because no matter which piece black captures the Q with, it's mate.
Aug-27-12  Moonwalker: Looking forward to the day I pattern-recognise a Thursday puzzle!
Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <Abdel Irada>: <<BillTaylor10: NN it means no name, and his opponent is anonymous.> Actually, NN stands for the Latin phrase "nomen nescio": "I don't know the name" (literally, "(the) name not-I-know").>

Anyone who plays a game like black did, and haven't we all, prefers to be NN or anon.

Aug-27-12  EXIDE: I started with Nf7+, and discovered that I had to retrace my moves in order to win.
Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <EXIDE: I started with Nf7+, and discovered that I had to retrace my moves in order to win.>

Interesting point: 13 Nf7+ Ke8 14 Nd6++ still wins after 14 ... Kd8 or Kf8

Aug-27-12  Abdel Irada: <stst>: <Every even number = sum of two primes.>

Wouldn't a single counterexample suffice to destroy this hypothesis? Say 25 + 5 = 30? Here, in the first test case I thought of, we find the even number 30 consisting of the sum of a prime (5) and a composite (25).

Now, I'm not a mathematician, and I may have misunderstood the stipulations in some way. For example, you may have meant to specify that two primes can be found that add up to each even number; in this case, say 23 + 7. If so, please point out my error.

And incidentally, would 2 be a special case? Note that it consists of 1 + 1 or 2 + 0, and 0 and 1 are neither prime nor composite.

Aug-27-12  Abdel Irada: <tpstar: I remember some quote about a Knight on the sixth means your game wins itself....>

One question: If a knight on king six is like a bone in the throat, is a king on knight six like the throne in a boat?

Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <shaikriyaz>: <I once read it here some kibitzer mentioning a kasparov quote <once your knight reaches the d3/d6 square, its only a matter of time before you win>>

I imagine Kasparov was remembering his game 16 in Karpov-Kasparov II, when he was black and got a knight entrenched on d3, and proceeded to crush WC Karpov in astonishing style. Afterwards he said that such games remain with their creator for the rest of their lives. That was 1985. I did not look it up, so may have misremembered (not being the creator!) the exact reference.

Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <Abdel Irada>:
<One question: If a knight on king six is like a bone in the throat, is a king on knight six like the throne in a boat?>

Without doubt, this is the wittiest post I ever read on CG.com. Kudos!

Aug-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: Bravo!!
Aug-27-12  sushijunkie: <Abdel Irada: <stst>: <Every even number = sum of two primes.> Wouldn't a single counterexample suffice to destroy this hypothesis? Say 25 + 5 = 30? Here, in the first test case I thought of, we find the even number 30 consisting of the sum of a prime (5) and a composite (25).

Now, I'm not a mathematician, and I may have misunderstood the stipulations in some way. For example, you may have meant to specify that two primes can be found that add up to each even number; in this case, say 23 + 7. If so, please point out my error.>

You are not wrong or misunderstanding, <stst> did a poor job of quoting the Goldbach Conjecture: Every integer greater than 2, CAN BE EXPRESSED by the sum of two primes. CAN BE is much different from IS. IS means IS ONLY, while CAN BE means IS, but NOT ONLY. Also, back when Golbach made the conjecture, 1 was considered prime, while it is now generally accepted to be something other. That now changes the conjecture to "Every integer greater than 4...".

Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <TheFocus: Bravo!!>

<"Oh frabjous day! Calloo! Callay!"

He chortled in his joy.>

Aug-27-12  Tiggler: <Tiggler: <shaikriyaz>: <I once read it here some kibitzer mentioning a kasparov quote <once your knight reaches the d3/d6 square, its only a matter of time before you win>> I imagine Kasparov was remembering his game 16 in Karpov-Kasparov II, when he was black and got a knight entrenched on d3, and proceeded to crush WC Karpov in astonishing style. Afterwards he said that such games remain with their creator for the rest of their lives. That was 1985. I did not look it up, so may have misremembered (not being the creator!) the exact reference>

This is the game:

<Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985>

IMO, one of the greatest of all time (but nothing like today's puzzle).

Aug-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Its a MOTHER, mate!
Aug-27-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: <Abdel Irada: <BillTaylor10: NN it means no name, and his opponent is anonymous.> Actually, NN stands for the Latin phrase "nomen nescio": "I don't know the name" ***>

That is indeed the origin of the abbreviation, as I noted on page 2 of this thread, but in English it is commonly rendered as "No Name", as <BillTaylor10> said.

For more on "N.N.", see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomen_...

Aug-27-12  Shams: <For example, you may have meant to specify that two primes can be found that add up to each even number; in this case, say 23 + 7.>

Yes, that's the formulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldba...

Feb-18-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Bird of Prey.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
w14
from Checkmate miniatures by RookHook
Mates de la Coz
by trovatore
Famous mate
from Яяoи caяa by CharlieLuciano
KGA. Rosentreter Gambit Bird Gambit
from MKD's King's Gambit by MKD
11. Nxf7! sets up 12. Nd6+!
from Discovered Check by patzer2
KGA Rosentreter Gambit Bird G (C37) 1-0 Sac Rh1 Smothered #
from 1870s - 1890s Classic Chess Principles Arise by fredthebear
w14
from KG Brevities by fredthebear
Game collection: 2
by gr2ca1
Brutal Attacking Chess
by rbaglini
13.? (Monday, October 25)
from Puzzle of the Day 2004 by Phony Benoni
combos
by had2x
Interesting Mating Patterns
by chesscrazy
13.? (Monday, August 27)
from Puzzle of the Day 2012 by Phony Benoni
14 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection II by wwall
Challenger Bird
by Gottschalk
9...d6! forces a draw and 10...Nf6! leads to a favorable ending
from Defensive Combinations by patzer2


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC