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Robert James Fischer vs Arthur Bisguier
New York State Open (1963), Poughkeepsie, NY USA, rd 6, Sep-02
Italian Game: Two Knights Defense. Polerio Defense Suhle Defense (C59)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-28-11  Petrosianic: <I have reminded some players, and others I have not. Personal choice in the situation.> I've only had the situation arise 2 or 3 times. I've always told them, but it's a difficult pyschological situation, because then you start to second guess yourself and wonder how much worse you made things for yourself. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Bisguier's blunder at the end was at least partially caused by his distraction over this.

I've told players their clock was running, but I've never actually had to wake one up, and have to confess, I'm not sure what the protocol would be. Do you shake him (and invade his personal space by touching him)? Or do you say something, and disturb nearby players? I don't know what the etiquette should be here, and I shouldn't have to think about that when I'm trying to concentrate on a game.

Now, it might happen that you wouldn't tell your opponent because you don't <know> about it. I tend to wander a lot when I'm not on the move and if I saw the other guy's clock running, I'd assume he was on the move even if he wasn't.

That never actually happened, and it's not an issue any more, with digital clocks where you can't see from a distance which clock is running. But with the old clocks, the white buttons could be seen from far away.

<In round robins, I always reminded players from my club. This was a rule in our club, and you could lose your per diem for not doing so.>

Well, in cases where it's a requirement, then of course you should do so. In cases where it's not a requirement, then you're going above and beyond duty by doing it. But life is complicated, and people sometimes <expect> you to go above and beyond, and look down on you if you don't.

<The thing to do, is to let about five minutes run down and then remind them as if you had just noticed yourself.>

That's good, sneaky thinking. In my case, I knew that my opponent knew my clock was running. He didn't make any secret of it after the game. He's lucky I was understanding, because some might have pitched a fit.

The thing is, this was an unrated High School Tournament. We were both just starting out. Keeping track of your clock is a very important thing, that you're going to have to learn if you want to keep playing tournament chess. Best to learn that as soon as possible, and a good hard lesson early on is a good way to remember it later.

That doesn't apply to Fischer and Bisguier, of course, who were both seasoned pros and US title holders. But I agree with you. It's the players call as to whether to call attention to it or not. But if someone decides not to, then he's not a bad guy. That's the way I felt when I was on the receiving end of it, and I still feel that way.

Oct-28-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: Didn't Kasparov forget to stop his clock once and Karpov did not tell him about it? I seem to remember Garry being upset about it.
Oct-29-11  AnalyzeThis: If it was Reshevsky playing Fischer, he wins the game first and asks questions later. Different people feel differently about this.
Oct-29-11  Petrosianic: That sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't remember for sure, or what game it was, or if it affected the outcome. It can all get complicated in a case where two rivals are involved. If one does a favor for the other, will he appreciate it? Or will he resent feeling that he now owes a favor to someone he doesn't want to owe a favor to? You know the old saying "No good deed goes unpunished." That's why I wouldn't criticize someone who failed to point it out. I can imagine ways he could try to be a nice guy and have it blow up in his face. Especially since, strictly according to the rules, you aren't supposed to be communicating with him except to offer a draw.
Aug-29-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: This is game 45 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.
Jul-23-13  pierre11: 26...De6 is much better
Jan-12-14  SeanAzarin: Fischer's observation on Bisguier's 26th move: "A pity that just when the game was getting interesting, Black has to make this terrible mistake."
Jan-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: <SeanAzarin: Fischer's observation on Bisguier's 26th move: "A pity that just when the game was getting interesting, Black has to make this terrible mistake.">

So let's see. Fischer is saying that the game was <getting interesting>. That means he considers the game UNinteresting up to move 26. Then there is a blunder followed by 5 half-moves (2˝ moves) and the game ends.

So out of all Fischer's games what made this uninteresting game <memorable>?

May-08-14  Everett: <RookFile: I remember Lev Alburt tried an experiment, once time. In a lesson, after 1. e4, he played ....Na6. Then he watched as one guy after another played 2. Bxa6. >

This is verbatim from one if his books. Or maybe you were there witnessing all these lessons, eh?

<offramp> I imagine this is memorable due to the cool dream he had during the game.

May-08-14  RookFile: I'm sure. I think I read it in Chess Life, myself.
May-08-14  Petrosianic: <offramp>: <So let's see. Fischer is saying that the game was <getting interesting>. That means he considers the game UNinteresting up to move 26.>

I think we can assume that he meant MORE interesting. Certainly the game was interesting before that, when he dredged up the Steinitz Nh3 line. But the really interesting part would be finding out how well that line held up. Having the game decided on a blunder denies us this.

May-08-14  Petrosianic: <offramp>: <So let's see. Fischer is saying that the game was <getting interesting>. That means he considers the game UNinteresting up to move 26.>

I think we can assume that he meant MORE interesting. Certainly the game was interesting before that, when he dredged up the Steinitz Nh3 line. But the really interesting part would be finding out how well that line held up. Having the game decided on a blunder denies us this.

No mystery about what makes the game memorable. The Nh3 line and the falling asleep mid game both make it stand out.

May-08-14  Petrosianic: Most people are more familiar with this game than the place Fischer got it from. It's from the Steinitz-Tchigorin cable match. A two-game correspondence match which Tchigorin won 2-0.

The Black game featured another attempt at Steinitz's crazy Qf6 line in the Evans, while the White game was this one. Steinitz got away with this stuff most of the time, but this match showed Steinitz at his worst and Tchigorin at his best.

Steinitz vs Chigorin, 1890

May-08-14  Howard: Regarding the inquiry from TheFocus (about 7-8 postings above this one), in Game 2 of the 1987 WCC match between Kasparov and Karpov, the former indeed forgot to hit his clock after making a move, and he lost three minutes from his allotted time. But his position was lost anyway.
May-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: <Petrosianic: <offramp>: <So let's see. Fischer is saying that the game was <getting interesting>. That means he considers the game UNinteresting up to move 26.> I think we can assume that he meant MORE interesting. Certainly the game was interesting before that, when he dredged up the Steinitz Nh3 line. But the really interesting part would be finding out how well that line held up. Having the game decided on a blunder denies us this.

No mystery about what makes the game memorable. The Nh3 line and the falling asleep mid game both make it stand out.>

The Nh3 line and the Steinitz connection give the game some interest. But in the notes to the game, as far as I can remember, there is no mention of Fischer hitting the sack.

"At this point I did something very unusual. I went to sleep for 7 and a half hours."

May-14-14  Petrosianic: That's true, the book doesn't mention him falling asleep. A lot of times the book doesn't tell you exactly why a game was "Memorable", only that it was. In many case it's obvious, but not always. I've wondered for years what was so memorable about Fischer-Steinmeyer. My theory is that it wasn't really all that memorable at all, and they just wanted a miniature to include in the book.
May-14-14  RookFile: Fischer finds a way to get an advantage after 1. e4 e5 that does not involve the Ruy. Today's players might consider looking at some of these forgotten ideas.
May-14-14  SpiritedReposte: I cannot believe Fischer played this line and I've never seen it.

This was the bane of my Two Knights opening and always caused me problems as white.

Fischer handles it superbly with 9.Nh3 where I would always play Nf3 and black would have an attack after a later e4.

Here white's scattered kingside pawns don't matter as Bobby just puts his bishop on g2. I'm going to shoot for this line now again lol.

May-14-14  RookFile: Fischer got it from Steinitz's games.
May-15-14  SpiritedReposte: Interesting...ol' Steinitz knew what was up.

I don't give the "old school" players enough credit. Besides a few Morphy games, anything before Capa/Alekhine is a blur to me.

May-15-14  Petrosianic: <Interesting...ol' Steinitz knew what was up.>

If you saw the game (posted above) where Steinitz played this line, you know it wasn't one of his more successful experiments.

I can't believe you could be a Two Knights player, and not be aware of this game, though. You might consider switching away from 4. Ng5 to something like 4. d4 to give Black more problems. Fischer said that 4. Ng5 was the only reasonable try for advantage, but that was 40 years ago, and theory has changed. Generally, it seems that when players play the Two Knights Defense at all, 4. Ng5 is the move they're most prepared for.

May-16-14  SpiritedReposte: Just saw that Steinitz game up there thanks for posting it <Petrosianic>

I should have seen these when I was a Two Knights 4. Ng5 player. I switched to the Ruy years ago and haven't looked back since!

Jun-01-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: A long shot.

In ‘Combinations and Traps in the Opening.’ by Boris Vainstein published in Russian in 1960 Vainstein shows and discusses the 9.Nh3 idea.

We know Fischer devoured everything in Russian he could get. It is possible that Vainstein fed Fischer's inquisitive mind to investigate it and he flicked it out 3 years later.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess-blo...

Yes it is a long shot. But give it time and soon it will be firmly established amongst all the other Fischer myths.

Jun-01-17  Granny O Doul: The "falling asleep" game between these two was not this one, but a King's Indian, ultimately decided by a ...Nh2 sac followed by a Q+B invasion.

In "The Champions: The Secret Motives in Games and Sports" the author, Peter Fuller, quotes the "Bisguier slumped and his chest collapsed" line and makes the comment "Not very different from 'I killed and castrated Bisguier.'"

Jun-01-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Granny O Doul>

According to Bisguier, it was the Two Knights Game in the New York Open where he had to wake Fischer up. See kibitzing here:

Bisguier vs Fischer, 1963

Of course that doesn't jibe with the Leopoldi story -- presumably Leopoldi wasn't at the NY tournament. Maybe Bisguier is misremembering, or there was some other all-night chess session at the New York tournament.

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