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May-12-08
 | | ray keene: in the above variation i wonder whether 31 qf4 instead of bf3 might be a possibility. of course the resource ---bd3 is very clever, the sort of thing a computer will spot. another thought is that white cd repeatedly have tried the bg5 sac from move 21 onwards. could it have been implemented more sucessfully at an earlier stage? i think this kind of idea was just not known at that time since none of the commentators pointed it out as a possibility-anyway i wd be interested in seeing the outcome after qf4 in place of bf3.i also cant help feeling that the practical effect wd have been quite devastating if bronstein had actually played bg5 at some stage. |
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May-12-08
| | ray keene: another thought in the defensive variation given-cd white consider rxb4 as a recapture instead of axb4? |
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May-12-08
| | ray keene: yet another thought-after the defensive resource --bd3 is the immediate nf6+ any good? |
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May-12-08
| | ray keene: belay that last idea-i have just seen the tactics which refute it-i am trying to use my own brain here rather than fritz but i have to confess the silicon brain is much faster than my 6 decade old model and probably saw the refutation in a micro second-whereas it took me rather longer. |
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| May-13-08 | | CharlesSullivan: <ray keene> Thanks for the continued feedback. I am working on some of your ideas. In the line 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.hxg5 axb4 30.cxb4 Rc6, the suggested 31.Qf4 doesn't seem any more convincing than 31.♗f3. Something like 31...Rfc8 32.b5 R6c7 33.Nf6+ Nxf6 34.exf6 Qf8 35.fxg7 Qxg7 gets evaluated as pretty level. I will look more closely at this line soon. Currently, I am looking at 22.Bg5, but proper analysis will require at least 2 or 3 days. Perhaps <Pawn and two> can look at some of the other things. |
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May-13-08
| | ray keene: dont forget the Rxb4 possibility! |
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May-13-08
| | ray keene: also after --qf8 in the most recent line is white obliged to capture at once on g7 or can he try to build up his h file attack first? |
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May-13-08
 | | Pawn and Two: <ray keene> Fritz reviewed your new suggestion: 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.hxg5 axb4 30.Rxb4. At 24 ply, Fritz gave the following continuation: 30...Qc7 31.Bf3 Ne7 32.Kg2 Rh8 33.Nf6+ Bxf6 34.gxf6 Nf5 35.Rh1+ Kg8 36.Rxh8+ Kxh8, with an equal position. After 36...Kxh8, Fritz indicated the following continuation: (.00) (20 ply) 37.Qf4 Kg8 38.g4 Nh4+ 39.Kh3 g5 40.Qxg5+ Ng6 41.Rxc4 Qxc4 42.Qh6 Qf1+, with an equal position. |
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| May-13-08 | | RandomVisitor: 28.Ne3 is a solid move that threatens Nxc4. |
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| May-14-08 | | CharlesSullivan: <ray keene & Pawn and Two> Zappa and Rybka confirm that 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.hxg5 axb4 30.Rxb4 leads to equality. If 30...Qc5 (30...Qc7 is just as good), then 31.Bf3 Ne7 32.Kg2 <no better is 32.♘f6+ ♗xf6 33.gxf6 ♖h8! 34.fxe7 ♕xe7 35.♖eb1 ♗a6 36.♖h4+ ♔g7=> Rh8! 33.Nf6+ Bxf6 34.gxf6 Kg8 35.fxe7 Qxe7 holds (36.Rbb1 Kg7 37.Rh1 Ba6 38.Qe3 Qc7=). |
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| May-14-08 | | CharlesSullivan: Per Zappa/Rybka, trying Bg5 at move twenty-two looks like this: 22.Bg5 hxg5 23.hxg5 Bh8! <Black is going to un-castle! -- after a deep search, it's the only move I found that maintains equality> 24.Bf3 Ne7 25.Kg2 Rg8 26.Rh1+ Kg7 27.Qf4 Kf8 28.Nh6 Rg7 and now White has nothing better than to repeat the position with 29.Ng4 Rg8 etc. <In this line, White can keep the initiative with 28.♘f6 ♕c7 29.b4 d4 30.cxd4 cxd4 31.♖hc1 ♗xf6 32.exf6 ♗xf3 33.♕xf3 ♘c6 but he never quite achieves equality, always remaining slightly behind in material; for example: 34.a4 ♕b6 35.b5 axb5 36.axb5 ♘a7 37.♕f4 ♔e8 38.♖c4 ♖xc4 39.dxc4 ♔d7 40.♖d1 ♖d8 41.♖xd4+ ♔c8 and White will be satisfied with a draw.> |
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May-14-08
| | Pawn and Two: <RandomVisitor: 28.Ne3 is a solid move that threatens Nxc4.> See my post of May 11th. The best move Fritz could find at move 28 was also 28.Ne3. I believe you have indicated previously that you use Rybka for your computer analysis. <ray keene & Charles Sullivan & KingG & RandomVisitor> Hans Kmoch in his review of this game in Chess Review did not give any analysis or alternative moves at move 28, but he did apply an exclamation mark for the move Bronstein made, 28.bxa5!. It is very interesting to see all of the diverse opinions and analysis regarding White's choice at move 28. |
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| May-14-08 | | CharlesSullivan: <ray keene> Regarding your query about avoiding 35.fxg7 (in the 31.Qf4 line) and playing for the attack on the h-file, here is the only plausible attack scenario that I could construct that doesn't succumb outright (according to Zappa/Rybka): 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.hxg5 axb4 30.cxb4 Rc6 31.Qf4 Rfc8 32.b5 R6c7 33.Nf6+ Nxf6 34.exf6 Qf8 and now instead of equality after 35.fxg7 ♕xg7, White risks attacking with 35.Bf3 Bd3 <that move again!> 36.Qh4+ <36.♖bd1 ♖c4!> 36...Kg8 37.Rbd1 <37.♔g2 ♗xb1 38.♖h1 ♗h6! 39.♖xb1 ♖c1! with a big advantage for Black> 37...Rc4 38.g4 Bc2 <possibly a little safer is 38...Qb4 with counterattack, forcing liquidation> 39.Rc1 Rf4 40.Re3 Bxa4 41.Rxc8 Qxc8 42.fxg7 Kxg7 43.Be2 Qc5 44.Rh3 <finally> 44...Kf8 and Black is safe enough with an extra pawn. <It seems that White needs one more tempo to make Bg5 a winner.> |
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| May-14-08 | | RandomVisitor: After 27...Bc4:
1: David Bronstein - Mikhail Botvinnik, Moscow-Wch 1951
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp : <22-ply> 1. (0.48): 28.Ne3 Qe8 29.bxa5 Qxa4 30.Rxb7 Qxa5 31.Nxc4 Rxc4 32.h5 gxh5 33.Rc1 Kh8 34.Bf3 Rc7 2. (0.35): 28.Rec1 axb4 29.cxb4 Rfd8 30.h5 Qc7 31.hxg6+ fxg6 32.Qb2 Kh8 33.Rc2 Rf8 34.Rbc1 Qb8 3. (0.34): 28.Bf3 axb4 29.cxb4 h5 30.Ne3 Bh6 31.Bg5 Bxg5 32.hxg5 Kg7 33.g4 Rfd8 34.Kg2 Ra8 (, 14.05.2008)
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| May-15-08 | | RandomVisitor: 3 minutes a move analysis:
avid Bronstein - Mikhail Botvinnik [A04]
Moscow-Wch Moscow-Wch (14), 1951
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp ]
1.Nf3 e6
2.g3 d5
3.Bg2 c5
4.0-0 0.24/17 Nc6
5.d3 g6 0.26/15
6.e4= 0.17/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 6.c4 Nf6 7.Qc2 Be7 8.Bh6 Ng4 9.cxd5 exd5 10.Bg7 Rg8 11.Bc3 Kf8 12.h3² 0.26/15 ] 6...Bg7
7.Qe2 0.00/17 Nge7 last book move
8.e5 -0.10/15 Qc7= 0.03/18
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 8...h6 9.Na3 g5 10.Nb5 0-0 11.h4 g4 12.Nh2 h5 13.Bf4 Qb6= -0.10/15 ] 9.Re1 0.03/16 a6= 0.10/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 9...0-0 10.Na3 Qb6 11.c3 Bd7 12.Bg5 f6 13.exf6 Bxf6 14.Bxf6 Rxf6= 0.03/16 ] 10.c3 0.10/17 Bd7 0.10/17
11.Na3 0.10/17 h6 0.10/17
12.Rb1= 0.00/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 12.Nc2 0-0 13.Ne3 h5 14.b3 Rac8 15.Bb2 Qb6 16.d4 cxd4 17.cxd4 Bh6 18.Bc3= 0.10/17 ] 12...Nf5= 0.11/18
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 12...g5 13.Bh3 0-0 14.b4 cxb4 15.cxb4 Ng6 16.d4 Qb6 17.Nc2 Rfc8 18.Ba3 Nge7 19.Qd2= 0.00/17 ] 13.Nc2 0.11/17 Rc8 0.11/17
14.h4= 0.07/16
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 14.Ne3 Nxe3 15.Bxe3 Nxe5 16.Bf4 Nxf3+ 17.Qxf3 Qb6 18.Qxd5 g5 19.Bd2 Rc7 20.Qc4 Bc6= 0.11/17 ] 14...Qa5= 0.24/18
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 14...0-0 15.Bd2 h5 16.Bg5 d4 17.a3 dxc3 18.bxc3 Nce7 19.Ne3 Bc6 20.Nxf5 Nxf5 21.Bf6= 0.07/16 ] 15.a3 0.27/16 Qd8 0.27/18
16.Bf4 0.27/17 0-0 0.27/15
17.Ne3 0.21/19 Nxe3 0.22/20
18.Qxe3 0.22/19 Kh7 0.31/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 18...Ne7 19.Qd2 Kh7 20.b4 c4 21.Nd4 Qc7 22.dxc4 Qxc4 23.Rbc1 Nc6 24.Bf1 Nxd4= 0.22/19 ] 19.Nh2= 0.15/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 19.b4 d4 20.cxd4 cxb4 21.axb4 Ne7 22.Qd2 Nd5 23.Nh2 Qb6 24.Bxd5 exd5 25.Be3² 0.31/17 ] 19...Ne7 0.15/17
20.Ng4 0.15/17 Ng8 0.40/16
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 20...Nf5 21.Qd2 b6 22.Ra1 Ba4 23.b4 Qe7 24.Rab1 c4 25.d4 Bc6 26.Ra1 Ba4 27.Bf3= 0.15/17 ] |
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| May-15-08 | | RandomVisitor: 21.Qd2 0.40/17 Bc6 0.42/16 22.d4² 0.28/18
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 22.b4 cxb4 23.axb4 Bb5 24.Rbc1 Qd7 25.Ne3 Ne7 26.c4 0.42/16 ] 22...cxd4 0.33/16
23.Qxd4 0.26/16 Bb5 0.37/15
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 23...Ne7 24.Nf6+ Bxf6 25.exf6 Nf5 26.Qe5 d4 27.Red1 Bxg2 28.Kxg2 Qb6 29.cxd4 Rfd8 30.Qe4 0.26/16 ] 24.b3 0.37/16 a5 0.55/16
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 24...Bc6 25.Bh3 Bd7 26.c4 h5 27.Bg5 Qc7 0.37/16 ] 25.a4 0.36/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 25.c4 Bc6 26.cxd5 Bxd5 27.Bxd5 Qxd5 28.Qb6 Rc3 29.Red1 Qf3 30.Ne3 0.55/16 ] 25...Ba6 0.36/16
26.Qd2 0.27/18 Qe7 0.48/17
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 26...h5 27.Ne3 Bh6 28.Bxh6 Nxh6 29.b4 axb4 30.cxb4 Bc4 31.Bf3 Qe7 32.Rec1 Rc7 33.b5 0.27/18 ] 27.b4 0.48/18 Bc4 0.48/22
28.bxa5 0.28/19
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 28.Ne3 Qe8 29.bxa5 Qxa4 30.Rxb7 Qxa5 31.Rb4 Ba6 32.Qd4 Qc5 33.Ra1 Qxd4 34.cxd4 Ra8 0.48/22 ] 28...Ba6 0.28/17
29.Bf1 0.28/18 Qc5 0.28/16
30.Bb5 0.28/19 Qxc3 0.29/19
31.Qxc3 0.30/21 Rxc3 0.32/19
32.Bxa6 0.24/21 bxa6 0.25/20
33.Rb6 0.19/19 Rc4 0.21/18
34.Nh2= 0.00/22
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 34.Rxa6 Rfc8 35.Nh2 Ne7 36.Ra7 Nc6 37.Rxf7 Nxa5 38.Re7= 0.21/18 ] 34...Ne7 0.00/19
35.Rxa6 0.00/20 Nc6 0.00/19
36.Nf3 0.00/21 Nb4 0.00/22
37.Rb6= -0.19/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 37.Ra7 Nc6 38.Ra6= 0.00/22 ]
37...Nd3 -0.19/21
38.Ra1 -0.19/18 Nxf4 -0.19/20
39.gxf4 -0.20/19 Rxf4 -0.20/21
40.Kg2 -0.21/19 g5= 0.00/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 40...f6 41.exf6 R4xf6 42.Ra3 e5 43.Rxf6 Bxf6 44.Rb3 e4 45.Rb7+ Kg8 46.Nh2 Ra8 47.Rb6= -0.21/19 ] |
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| May-15-08 | | RandomVisitor: 41.hxg5 0.00/20 hxg5 0.00/20
42.Nxg5+ 0.00/20 Kg6 0.00/20
43.Nf3 -0.42/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 43.Nh3 Rc4 44.f4 Rc2+ 45.Kf3 Kf5 46.Rb7 Rc3+ 47.Kg2 Kg4 48.Ng5 Rc2+ 49.Kg1 Kxf4= 0.00/20 ] 43...Rg8 -0.45/17
44.Ra3 -0.50/20 Bf8 -0.42/19
45.Rd3 -0.61/19
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 45.Rab3 Rxa4 46.a6 Bc5 47.Rc6 Kf5+ 48.Kf1 Ra1+ 49.Ke2 Ra2+ 50.Nd2 Bf8 51.Rcb6 Kxe5 -0.42/19 ] 45...Rxa4 -0.65/17
46.Kf1 -0.87/19
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 46.Nd4 Rxa5 47.Rb8 Kh7+ 48.Kf1 Ra1+ 49.Ke2 Ra2+ 50.Kf1 Ra3 51.Nb3 Bg7 52.Rh3+ Bh6 -0.65/17 ] 46...Ra1+ -0.87/20
47.Ke2 -0.72/17 Ra2+ -0.68/18
48.Rd2 -0.97/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 48.Nd2 Bh6 49.Rxd5 Kf5 50.Rd3 Bxd2 51.Rxd2 Rxa5 52.Rd7 Rxe5+ 53.Kf3 f6 54.Rd4 Rg5 -0.68/18 ] 48...Rxa5 -0.97/18
49.Rb8 -0.97/18 Rh8 -0.63/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 49...Ra4 50.Nd4 Kg5 51.Kf3 Rh8 52.Rd1 Ra3+ 53.Kg2 Bg7 54.Nf3+ Kg4 55.Rb4+ Kf5 56.Re1 -0.97/18 ] 50.Nd4 -0.78/18 Bg7 -0.46/20
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 50...Ra3 51.Rc8 Ra7 52.Rd3 Kg5 53.Rc2 Ra3 54.Rc7 -0.78/18 ] 51.Rxh8 -0.46/23 Bxh8 -0.46/23
52.f4 -0.44/20 Ra3 -0.42/21
53.Rd1 -0.42/22 Ra2  -0.18/23
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 53...Ra4 54.Kf3 Bg7 55.f5+ exf5 56.Rg1+ Kh7 57.Nxf5 Bxe5 58.Rh1+ Kg6 59.Ne7+ Kf6 60.Nxd5+ -0.42/22 ] 54.Kf3 -0.17/19 Ra3 0.00/25
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 54...Rh2 55.Nc6 Rh3+ 56.Kg4 Rh6 57.Ne7+ Kh7 58.f5 Bxe5 59.fxe6 fxe6 60.Nxd5 Kg7 61.Nb4= -0.17/19 ] 55.Kg4³ -0.45/23
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 55.Ke2 Bxe5= 0.00/25 ]
55...Bg7 -0.45/21 56.Kh4 -1.04/21
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 56.Rg1 Kh7 57.Nb5 Ra4 58.Kf3 Bh6 59.Rg4 Bf8 60.f5 Rxg4 61.Kxg4 Kg7 62.Nd4 -0.45/21 ] 56...Bf8= -0.08/24
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 56...Ra4 57.Rd3 Bf8 58.Kh3 Ra3 59.Rxa3 Bxa3 60.Kg4 f5+ 61.Kf3 Kf7 62.Nb3 Be7 63.Ke2 -1.04/21 ] 57.f5+ -0.08/21 exf5 -0.08/25
58.Rg1+ -0.08/24 Kh7 -0.03/18
59.Nxf5 -0.03/21 Ra6 -0.02/20
60.Rg5 -0.34/21
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 60.Rg3 Re6 61.Kg5 Rg6+ 62.Kf4 Rxg3 63.Nxg3 Kg6 64.Nf5 Bc5 65.Nh4+ Kg7 66.Kf5 d4= -0.02/20 ] 60...Bh6 -0.34/21
61.Rg3 -0.45/22
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 61.Rg1 Re6 62.Nd6 f6 63.Rd1 Rxe5 64.Nf7 Re4+ 65.Kg3 Bf8 66.Rxd5 Kg6 67.Nd8 f5 -0.34/21 ] 61...Re6 -0.39/20 62.Rf3 -0.75/22
[Rybka 2.3.2a mp : 62.Rd3 Rxe5 63.Kg4 f6 64.Nh4 Re4+ 65.Kh5 d4 66.Nf5 Be3 67.Ra3 Bc1 68.Ra7+ Kg8 -0.39/20 ] 62...Rxe5 -0.75/23
63.Nxh6 0.00/26 Kxh6 0.00/59
64.Rxf7 0.00/59 Kg6 0.00/59
65.Rf4 0.00/59 Rf5 0.00/59
66.Kg4 0.00/59 ½-½ |
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May-15-08
| | ray keene: so it looks like the Bg5 idea tends to work out to equality-its interesting that no earlier commentators even spotted the concept-to my mind its crying out to be played and i think in practice it might have won. |
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| May-15-08 | | RandomVisitor: After 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.hxg5 axb4 30.cxb4:
1: David Bronstein - Mikhail Botvinnik, Moscow-Wch 1951
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp : <24-ply> 1. = (0.12): 30...Qd8 31.Bf3 Bd3 32.Qxd3 Qxg5 33.Be2 Bxe5 34.f4 Bxf4 35.gxf4 Qxf4 36.Rf1 Qg5 37.Kf2 2. = (0.20): 30...Rfd8 31.Bf3 Bd3 32.Qxd3 Qxg5 33.Be2 Nh6 34.Nxh6 Bxh6 35.f4 Qe7 36.a5 Rc7 37.Kg2 (, 15.05.2008)
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| May-15-08 | | RandomVisitor: <ray>How was Bronstein situated in this match? would 28.Bg5 have been worth the gamble? |
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| May-16-08 | | CharlesSullivan: <ray keene> Trying the Bg5 idea at move 27 looked promising because, after many hours of analysis, I find that after 27.Bg5 hxg5 28.hxg5 either 28...Qc5 or 28...Qc7 allows White to eventually emerge one pawn ahead with possible winning chances. However, the third line seems to stop White cold: 28...Rfd8 29.Bf3 Bd3! <always this move!> 30.Qxd3 Qxg5. 
click for larger view The "attack" might continue 31.Kg2 Nh6 32.Rh1 Kg8 33.Nxh6+ Bxh6 and Rybka & Zappa do not see any advantage for White. |
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| Jun-27-11 | | Everett: Perhaps Bronstein remembered the potential of opening the h-file from this game when playing 20.Qh5 in this gem. Bronstein vs Plaskett, 1993 |
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Jun-03-14
 | | plang: This is a duplicate |
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Sep-25-15
| | plang: After 5 d3 the position was already new. The development of 5..g6 and 7..Nge7 was a favorite of Botvinniks though in this game it led to him getting an inferior position very quickly. 17 Ne3 was premature; more promising was 17 Qd2..Kh7 18 Nh2..b5 19 Ng4 with better chances for an attack than occurred in the game. 28 bxa?! was an odd choice; 28 b5 would have been better. 33 Rec1 would have been better avoiding Botvinniks strong 33..Rc4 after which Black was better though White did manage to hold the draw. |
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Jul-13-20
| | plang: 7..Nf6!? was tried in Vescovi-Svidler Bermuda 2002 (game not included in this database) - the game ended in a draw after Vescovi missed a win. |
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