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Mikhail Chigorin vs Siegbert Tarrasch
Chigorin - Tarrasch (1893), St. Petersburg RUE, rd 2, Oct-10
French Defense: Chigorin Variation (C00)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-17-06  MorphyMatt: Siegbert got thrown in the Tarrasch Compactor
Apr-21-06  suenteus po 147: If one is to be mated anyway, why not take the bishop before you go?
Apr-21-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  penarol: What if 42...Qg5 ?
Apr-22-06  suenteus po 147: <penarol> Capital idea! However, it fails due to 43.h4.
Sep-13-06  Dick Brain: Too bad. Tarrasch missed the defense 40...Bd2! which temporarily gives up some material but saves the game.
Sep-13-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: Harmonist was the first to find the move 40...Bd2!. He gave the following variation:

40...Bd2! 41.Rf6 Bh6 42.Rh6 b3 43.Bd1 b2 44.Bc2 Rc8 45.Rd6 Rc2 46.Rd8+ Bg8 47.Ne7 Kg7 48.Rg8 Kf7 and Black wins.

In this variation, Chigorin improved with the move 47.Rb8, instead of 47.Ne7?.

After the move 40...Bd2!, Tarrasch claimed the game was won for Black. Chigorin claimed that White could still draw.

Is the game after 40...Bd2!, a win for Black or is it a draw?

Sep-14-06  Dick Brain: <Pawn and Two> I don't know if Black can win or not. White has some good play against the Black king which might not allow time for Black to win with those wonderful passed pawns.
Apr-07-07  Gouki: very unorthodox french opening from Chigorin.

must have felt pretty weird playing against this kind of opening :D

i can almost see where Morozevich gets his unorthodox play from..

Apr-08-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Pawn and Two>
Very good winning chances for Black.

It looks forced for both players up to 40...Bd2! 41.Rf6 Bh6 42.Rh6 b3 43.Bd1 b2 44.Bc2 Rc8 45.Rd6 Rc2 46.Rd8+ Bg8 47. Rb8.

Now, Black plays for a win with 47...a5. One possibility is 48. Kg2 a4 49. Ne3 Rd2 50. Nc4 Rxd3 51. Nxb2 Rb3 which looks winning for Black.

Apr-08-07  sanyas: <If one is to be mated anyway, why not take the bishop before you go?>

Tarrasch also repeated this awkward idea of playing a random move before mate, rather than just resigning, in the following famous game. Although here it was kind of fitting. Pillsbury vs Tarrasch, 1895

Apr-08-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Pawn and Two> I'd go with Tarrash assesment on this one. I got Black solidly winning in all possible tries by White.
Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <beatgiant> In the line you provided, after 48.Kg2 a4 49.Ne3 Rd2 50.Nc4 Rxd3 51.Nxb2 Rb3, White can then play 52.Rxg8+ Kxg8 53.Nxa4 Kf7 54.Nc5.

Black has the advantage in this difficult ending. However, can you provide a clear winning line for Black after 52.Rxg8+?

Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <Gypsy> Can you provide us with your analysis of a winning line for Black?

Tarrasch and Chigorin are patiently waiting for you and <beatgiant> to provide your analysis and then they will resume their debate.

Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Pawn and Two> Let's try this: ...48.Rxf2+ Kg3 49.Rd2... What is your prefered plan for White from here?

Of course, the immediate Black threat is Rxd3+ and Rb3. And Black's long term plan is to march a6-a5-a4-a3...

Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <gypsy> do you mean 47...Rxf2+?
Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <Gypsy> After 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kg3 Rd2, Fritz indicates a draw by 49.Nh6 Kg7 50.Nxg8, and also a draw by 49.Ne7 Rxd3+ 50.Kh4 Kg7 51.Nxg8.
Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <keypusher: <gypsy> do you mean 47...Rxf2+?> Yes, sorry about that. Messed up the numbering, once again.>

<Pawn and Two: <Gypsy> After 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kg3 Rd2, Fritz indicates a draw by 49.Nh6 Kg7 50.Nxg8 ... > Not sure that I see it, ... 50...a5 51.Ne7 a4 52.Nd5 a3 ... Now what?

Apr-09-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Pawn and Two> Aha, here probably is the Fritz draw line: 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kg3 Rd2 49.Nh6 Kg7 50.Nxg8 a5 51.Ne7 a4 52.Nf5+ Kf6 53.Rb6+ Kf7 54.Nd6+ Ke7 55.Nc4 Rxd3+ 56.Kg4 a3 57.Nxb2 axb2 58.Rxb2=

Ok, back to 47...a5 then.

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: ... 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kf3 Rc2 ...

I. ... 49.Nh6 Kg7 50.Nxg8 a5 51.Ne7 a4 52.Nf5+ Kf7 53.Nd6+ Kd7 54.Nc4 Rxc4 55.Rxb2 (55.Rb7+ Kd6 56.Rxb2... does not help White; and if 55.dxc4 a3 ..., then Black queens) 55...Rc7 56.Rb5 Ra7 57.Rxe5 Kd6 58.Rb5 a3 59.Rb1 a2 60.Ra1 Ke5 61.Kf3 Kd4 ... and Black wins.

II. ... 49.Nd3 Rd2 50.Nc4 Rxd3+ 51.Kf4 a5 52.Nxa5 Rb3 ... and Black queens; or ... 52.Nxb2 Rb3 53.Rxb3 Bxb3 54.Kf5 a4 55.Nxa4 Bxa4 56.Kxe5 Kg7 ... also with a won endgame for Black.

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Gypsy: ... 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kf3 Rc2 ...

I. ... 49.Nh6 Kg7 50.Nxg8 a5 51.Ne7 a4 52.Nf5+ Kf7 53.Nd6+ Kd7 54.Nc4 Rxc4 55.Rxb2 (55.Rb7+ Kd6 56.Rxb2... does not help White; and if 55.dxc4 a3 ..., then Black queens) 55...Rc7 56.Rb5 Ra7 57.Rxe5 Kd6 58.Rb5 a3 59.Rb1 a2 60.Ra1 Ke5 61.Kf3 Kd4 ... and Black wins. ...>

Nope. Ouch! Totally scratch that.

By now, Dr. Tarrasch must be quite disapointed with me.

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Pawn and Two>,<gypsy> <Black has the advantage in this difficult ending. However, can you provide a clear winning line for Black after 52.Rxg8+?>

Here's the position in the line we're discussing.


click for larger view

I of course saw 52. Rxg8+ is forced and thought it looked winning, but of course 52. Rxg8+ Kxg8 53. Nxa4 Rb4 54. Nc3! Rc4 55. Nd5, and the e-pawn is held because of the fork after 55...Rxe4? 56. Nf6+.

So White gets a pawn for the exchange, which is why I said <very good winning chances> instead of <winning outright>.

After 52. Rxg8+ Kxg8 53. Nxa4 Kf7 54. Nc5 Rb5 55. Nd3 Kf6, White doesn't want to touch his pawns. He can try neutral moves like 56. Kf3 Rb3 57. Ke2 Rb1 58. Kf3 Rd1, etc. and I think Black can gradually infiltrate and tie White up. But of course it's a long process and very hard to give an exact "winning line" here.

Along with <Gypsy>, I also suspected that the other line with ...Rxf2+ might be winning but couldn't work it out conclusively.

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: <Gypsy> Dr. Tarrasch is starting to wonder whose side you are on!

After 47...Rxf2+ 48.Kg3, I cannot find any winning lines for Black. Do you have any additional variations that you wish to test? If not, we can let Tarrasch and Chigorin continue their debate.

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <Pawn and Two> Ok, you had to rub it in. :-) (Of course, there was a good reason why the rook went to the d2 the first time.)

Btw, I would have gone with the <47...a5>. But since <beatgiant> was already on the case and since I put lots of trust in his endgame skill, I decided to be useful exploring something else 'winning'.

(And now I am licking my wounds. And I have a headache.)

---

Great game, great endgame, and a great story!

Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: Well, the three of you (and Harmonist) put together a very good lesson on engame tactics. <The wars of truth are the only good wars.>
Apr-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: BTW, those looking for round numbers-Akavall has the whole match in his collection Game Collection: Chigorin - Tarrasch (match)

I at first thought Black had to win after 40...Bd2, but is it too much to imagine Chigorin foresaw the heroic knight tour starting some 9 moves later! with 49 Ne3-c4xb2xa4-c5-d3-g4) winning both pawns, and returning to set up a fortress?

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