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Max Euwe vs Wiersma
Amsterdam (1920), Amsterdam NED
Scotch Game: Scotch Gambit (C44)  ·  1-0



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sac: 19.Ng6+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-02-09  ClassZPlaya: <OhioChessFan> Good point that 14. ... c5 is a poor move.

I thought another reasonable move for Black is 14. ... c6 with the idea of Nc7 followed by Be6

Nov-02-09  VincentL: <Alayo>If we followed your recommendation there would be almost no posts at all on here Mondays and Tuesdays, since on those days there is usually only one line, max. two, which virtually all posters find very quickly. So once the first person has written up the solution, there is not much else to say regarding the puzzle.

But that isn't the spirit of kibitzing. Many add a comment or two, and one can easily scroll past posts if one doesn't wish to read them.

Nov-02-09  StevieB: Since I solved it, it must be a VERY easy puzzle.
Nov-02-09  YouRang: <alayo: Will it be too much to ask that people read prior postings from others before adding their own? It's rather boring to read redundant explanations of the same move sequences. It's as if everyone wants to outexplain (as in outplay) everyone else. Before posting, people should ask themselves whether or not they have anything new to say beyond what may have been said by someone else. I just thought this suggestion might make this forum a bit more interesting. Thank you.>

I do understand your point -- these replies do become repetitive. But keep in mind that we have people from practically all the world time zones coming here. If someone happens to be in a time zone where they can post the solution within the first minute after a puzzle is displayed, should that prevent others from posting their solutions?

I think it's best to let everyone post their response to the puzzle as they please, and let it serve as sort of a measure of how easy or difficult the puzzle was. I don't think that many do it with the intent to upstage the previous posters; they just want their chance to make a statement.

(BTW, I agree with <lost in space>. I think several of us write up our response to the puzzle in an editor before we look at the game itself, and then copy & paste our response.)

Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Instant gratification! Knight check at g6 followed by mate with Rh4. Simple but instructive.
Nov-02-09  laskersteinitz: I believe this is called a "corridor mate". (as opposed to "back-rank").
Nov-02-09  laskersteinitz: I think kibitzing on this site should be better organized. There should be sub-topics once you get to a page, organized around different themes.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <YouRang> Well said, as always!

<laskersteinitz: I think kibitzing on this site should be better organized. There should be sub-topics once you get to a page, organized around different themes.>

Perhaps, but then we would only argue about the themes! Is this a knight sac or a mating combination? An early middle game or a late opening? I think you are right about the corridor mate, though.

Nov-02-09  Patriot: Definitely easy.

If you want something a little more challenging in this puzzle, try looking for black's best move instead of 18...Be6??.

It looks like there are 3 candidates: Rxf7,g6,g5.

18...Rxf7 19.Rxf7 just looks lost for black, while 18...g6 and 18...g5 look more promising. 18...g5 looks better, forcing the rook away from attacking d4.

Sometimes going back a half move (just before a winning combination) is a good way to practice defensive tactics.

Nov-02-09  Nina Myers: I donīt like mondays.
Nov-02-09  YoungEd: Monday: the one day of the week where I can pretend to play as well as the greats of the game! :)
Nov-02-09  WhiteRook48: 19 Ng6+ too easy
Nov-02-09  laskersteinitz: <Once>: I mean it would be nice to simply have user-created topics, like in a regular forum where people make posts.
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <alayo: Will it be too much to ask that people read prior postings from others before adding their own? It's rather boring to read redundant explanations of the same move sequences. >

I sort of agree with you, but there's a group of rather talented puzzle solver/writers who have a methodology in their kibitzing that I enjoy. Yes, a forcing 2 mover on Monday does get repetitive, but so be it. I sort of feel sorry for the people on the Pacific Coast who are sort of left out. I remember a really interesting poster who mentioned being from California who always seemed to be the last poster on game or puzzle of the day. I think they got disheartened on never having a response and gave up the site. Anyway, hang on through Monday, which is admittedly boring, and things will get better through the week.

Nov-02-09  muralman: Yay, I got an easy one. I am still smarting at overlooking last Saturday's wonderful puzzle.
Nov-02-09  randomsac: Nice mate in two. I just love when I have pieces downboard to use.
Nov-02-09  DarthStapler: Got it
Nov-02-09  Waitaka: I truely got lost for a second or two, because it is Monday, and I have to confess that I was searching for a Queen on the board...
Nov-02-09  ComboKal: <alayo> re: <Will it be too much to ask...>

There's a certain sense of satisfaction to try to be the first to solve the puzzle, even if it's an easy one. So being the night owl that I am, rarely going to sleep before midnight, I did what have been doing since I discovered this site. I check for the newest puzzle, and as soon as it's posted I go to work. I saw the new one at 12:03 EST (U.S.) and I solved it in less than 30 seconds. I raced to post my answer which took another 30 secs, and when I checked, there were 3 others to beat me. I checked back a few minutes later after playing out the game, and there were several more postings with the answer, from responders who probably did the same thing I did.

The bottom line is that multiple postings with the answer are going to happen, especially with an easy puzzle! I don't think there is any way to avoid it.

Nov-02-09  alayo: I appreciate the responses to my comment and I understand the different view points. I think it boils down to the different reasons for posting. If one took the view point of using the puzzles as a learning aid, as opposed to a competition as to who posted first or who was the first to get the right solution, then one would be content that one got the right answer anyway, whether or not one was first to post that solution. I would see some value in posting of alternative solutions that are different from the one in the game. Maybe even better ideas than those of the players. As for me, I came to learn, and not to get a pat on the back for being the first to make a post. You have not seen much posting from me, even though I am on this site practically everyday, even at midnight. I look for interesting posts that express independent and interesting ideas. That may explain my frustration with posts that do not add any new information to those that came before. Peace to all.
Nov-02-09  zb2cr: <alayo>,

I try to follow your rule during later days of the week--if I have nothing to add, though, I will call attention to the postings of those who have done a competent job of analysis.

Nov-02-09  Moonwalker: <alayo> I'm with you... This is why I normally scroll to specific solvers' posts who tend to be more instructive, add a unique perspective or simply entertaining to read...

PS: I am aware of the irony in that this post didn't add anything new to the discussion, so don’t point it out! :)

Nov-02-09  ComboKal: <alayo> I appreciate your comments too, as well as the other responses. I'm always trying to learn from better players and help others who are learning. I can give two pieces of advice with the puzzles.

1. Something I was taught when I was a beginner: <examine every check and capture!> Winning moves are often overlooked because an exchange or sacrifice seems senseless at first, or a check appears meaningless.

2. I would advise everyone no matter what level, after working out the puzzle, to play out the games from the start. Besides being great games, it can give you a different perspective of what's going on prior to the puzzle move.

Nov-02-09  patzer2: Euwe's 15. Nd5! initiates a surprise deflection combination to win a pawn and initiate a dangerous attack.

However, I must! admit <FSR>'s suggestion 18...g5! is a fascinating defensive try.

P.S.: Anyone with a strong computer program care to evaluate 15. Nd5! .

Nov-02-09  ComboKal: BTW I can see the frustration of living in a different time zone. I guess I'm spoiled living on the east coast, and I didn't realize the puzzles are posted 3 hours later on the west coast. By then I'm sure there are dozens of postings to sift through.
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