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Robert James Fischer vs Klaus Viktor Darga
FRG-USA (1960), Berlin (W) FRG
French Defense: Winawer. Advance Variation (C19)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-14-10  elohah: But as Adorjan said, nobody can really play perfect Chess. Not computers, not the strongest humans, because it's just too complicated.

The note after 15... again, p.153 -
Fischer-Darga: A] After 15...N4c6 16 Ng5! 0-0! 17 Bg4 Rf6! on 17! is also not considered by Bobby.

And what about it? Black seems to defend after 18 Qe2 Nf5! 19 Bxf5 exf5 20 Rad1 h6! 21 Nh3! Be6 22 Bc1 g5.
What's the answer? The answer is that Black defends, and that Bobby didn't consider this.

On this same page, in Bobby's note after White's move 18:

'Better is the finesse 18 Bh5+! g6'

and here Bobby did not give 19 f5!!
gxh5 20 fe Bc8 21 Qxh5+ Kd8 22 Qxd5+
Ke8 23 Qh5+ Kd8 24 Rad1+ when Black is wiped out.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <elohah: But as Adorjan said, nobody can really play perfect Chess. Not computers, not the strongest humans, because it's just too complicated.>

On the contrary, I would say that not only is perfect chess possible, but it has quite possibly been done already.

The problem is that we'll never be able to figure out which game it was.

Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <elohah:
and here Bobby did not give 19 f5!!
gxh5 20 fe Bc8 21 Qxh5+ Kd8 22 Qxd5+
Ke8 23 Qh5+ Kd8 24 Rad1+ when Black is wiped out.>

Probably because of 19...O-O-O
or 20...O-O-O

When blacks not wiped out.

Jul-28-10  tentsewang: French Defense: Winawer. Advance Variation is one of my favorite play against black opponent. Fischer vs Petrosian '70 is a great help with an annotation by Fischer himself.
Sep-16-10  Petrosianic: What are the circumstances of this game? According to My 60 Memorable, it was played under "strict tournament conditions", but Lou Hays complete book of Fischer's games has it filed under Exhibition and Skittles Games. It's the only game Fischer played in this event, whatever it was, and I'm not finding any information on it in Chess Life or Chess Review, although it's probably tucked in there somewhere.
Sep-16-10  TheFocus: This was a team match played before the Leipzig Olympiad. US won 4.5 - .5. Sometimes titled Berlin Team Tournament.

More details tomorrow. Work is over and I need beer.

Sep-16-10  Petrosianic: Lou Hay's book describes it as "Berlin Team Tournament", but this event isn't listed in Fischer's playing record. Was it a one-off warmup match between the US and West German teams that went to Leipzig? Or was it part of a larger event? Did the US and/or BRD teams play anyone else in this "tournament"?

Looking at Petrosian's record, it's peppered with lots of one-off team matches that weren't part of an Olympiad (especially in 1954, when he had a half dozen of them just marked USSR vs. Argentina, USSR vs. Uruguay, et cetera). But the only Fischer games I know of that seem to fit this bill are this game, and the one against Sliwa, and they never seem to get listed on his playing record.

I actually met Darga briefly, years back. He and my dad were working at the same IBM installation in Boblingen.

Sep-16-10  kingfu: Disregarding the blitz and simul games, Fischer was 19 wins , 6 draws and 7 losses as White against all French variations. There are no French Defenses after 1971. However in 1970 and 1971 , Fischer munged The French.

Too bad we never had a Fischer - Korchnoi French!

Sep-17-10  kingfu: There was one Fischer-Korchnoi French but alas was a blitz game.
Sep-17-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> I consider the team matches against Poland (Sliwa) and the match against Germany (Darga) to be OFFICIAL and count them in Bobby's playing record. These were legitimate team matches and should be counted as such. I also include Bobby's exhibition games against Larsen and Andersson. To me, a one game exhibition is still a match and if it is played under strict tournament style, should be counted as such.

I do not have much information on the match with Germany, but Eliot Hearst covered the match with Poland and the Varna Olympiad that followed extensively in Chess Life. As I told Eliot Hearst, it was one of his best articles in Chess Life.

Many people do not count the match series that Capablanca played before his match with Corzo as OFFICIAL, but I do. The matches were played under tournament rules. In that regard, Corzo comes off with a life-time plus score against Capablanca by 7-6, as Corzo beat Capa in both games there and in both games in the Cuba Championship tournament. I have even seen in most Capablanca biographies that the actual Cuba Championship is not included in Capa's playing record and yet his match with Corzo is. Why? Capa finished with a minus score in 4th place. Doesn't help out the invincibility myth to include that result.

Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: Yeah, I'm thinking that they should count. I'm putting together a collection of all Fischer games, with Fritz analysis, and all the correct information like dates and round numbers, that online .pgn files usually leave off. I've broken it up into separate Classical and non-Classical files. Fischer's playing record in 60 Memorable Games doesn't mention either event, but it does say that the Darga game was played under "strict tournament conditions", which would meet my definition of "Classical".

I'm not sure about the Larsen and Anderson games, though. The Larsen game is always described as "Exhibition game played on Danish TV", which could mean a lot of things.

Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: <Eliot Hearst covered the match with Poland and the Varna Olympiad that followed extensively in Chess Life. As I told Eliot Hearst, it was one of his best articles in Chess Life.>

Considering that Hearst is one of the best columnists Chess Life ever had, that's no small compliment. If it's in his column, I'll find it. Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember reading him comment on the Sliwa game when I was in High School (my school library had the annuals for 1962 and 1963, which were very old even then, and which I never got to see again until the DVD set came out a few years ago).

Sep-17-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> A good source for dates and round numbers would be Lou Hays book on Bobby's career. Karsten Mueller's book did not put the rounds in correct order. A serious error for an otherwise excellent book.
Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: I've been using that. Sometimes he only has the month, and not the actual day, but he's pretty good about it. With his book, I've been able to put the Miagmasuren and Korchnoi games from Sousse into the proper order, which is not the same as the round order.
Sep-17-10  Damianx: Yes your right elohah he never had it all perfect at 14 how strange ,just most of it took him right up to the age of 20 to be complete
Sep-18-10  Petrosianic: Oh, I found it. It wasn't in his regular column, it was an article called "On Tour Behind the Iron Curtain".
Sep-18-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> That is right. I believe Eliot quit writing for Chess Life at the end of that year - 1962, or maybe 63 or 64. Can't remember as I was just skimming through those last two years.

He is quite a good guy. He shared some stuff with me about Bobby Fischer for my book.

Sep-18-10  Petrosianic: 1964. I saw his last column when I bought the complete 1964 set on Ebay several years back; shortly before the DVD set became available. He left it open that he might return later, but as far as I know, he never did.
Sep-19-10  kingfu: I quoted the Fischer French stats to illustrate that Fischer was not as bad against the French as we thought.

Did The Soviets have Petrosian instruct Spassky on the French for The Match? It was not played so I do not think so. Where was Geller in 1972??

TheFocus, when can we expect The Book? I will be first in line to have it signed! I want it signed, TheFocus!!!!

You convey much (and deep) knowledge of the Fischer Beast. I am amazed and amused and confused when it comes to even the most elementary understanding of Robert James Fischer. That includes his life and his chess games and everything!

Will there be some psychology in the book? I hope so. That aspect of his life may be central to all.

Sep-19-10  morphy2010: The french winawer was the most effective weapon vs. Fischer of any openigs possible
Aug-29-12  TheFocus: This is game 24 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.
Feb-22-14  clement41: The Bb5 d3 sequence is interesting
Dec-20-18  DarkWolf: Bonjour,

Les derniers mouvements avant l'échec et mat ne figurent pas dans la partie. Qu'est ce que les noirs répondent, sans doute avant que la reine blanche aille en a6 ?


Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <DarkWolf: Bonjour>

click for larger view

Final position / Black to move

1) +15.16 (25 ply) 30...Qd4+ 31.Kh1 Qxf4 32.Rxf4 Rd6 33.f6 g5 34.Rff1 Nd4 35.Qa6+ Kc6 36.f7 Rf8 37.Rab1 Nb3 38.cxb3 c3 39.Qa4+ Kb7 40.Qb4 Kc6 41.Rf6 Rxf6 42.Qxf8 c2 43.Qe8+ Kc7 44.Qe7+ Kb8 45.f8=Q+ Rxf8 46.Qxf8+ Kb7 47.Qg7+ Ka6 48.Rf1 Kb5

2) +23.11 (25 ply) 30...Nb8 31.Bxb8 Qd4+ 32.Kh1 Rhd8 33.Ra7+ Kxb8 34.Rxd7 Rxd7 35.Qxd7 Qe5 36.Rb1 Qc7 37.Qe8+ Kb7 38.Ra1 Qc8 39.Ra7+ Kxa7 40.Qxc8 d4 41.Qxc4 d3 42.Qxd3 Kb7 43.Qd7+ Ka6 44.Qxg7 b5 45.f6 b4 46.f7 Kb5 47.f8=Q Kc4 48.Qc7+ Kd5

3) +66.17 (25 ply) 30...Ra8 31.Rxa8 Qd4+ 32.Kh1 Qxf4 33.Qa6+ Kc7 34.Rxf4 Rd8 35.Rxd8 Nxd8 36.Qb5 Nb7 37.Qxd5 Nc5 38.Rxc4 h5 39.Rxc5+ bxc5 40.Qxc5+ Kb7 41.Qe7+ Kc6 42.Qxg7 Kd6 43.Qh6+ Kd5 44.Qxh5 Kc5 45.f6+ Kb4 46.f7 Ka4 47.Qg4+ Kb5 48.Qd7+ Kb6 49.f8=Q Ka5

6.0 minute analysis by Stockfish 9 v010218

Jun-09-19  Patzer Natmas: Game recorded in "New in Chess- Tactics Training - Bobby Fischer"
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