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Robert James Fischer vs Boris V Spassky
Spassky - Fischer World Championship Match (1972), Reykjavik ISL, rd 4, Jul-18
Sicilian Defense: Fischer-Sozin Attack. Leonhardt Variation (B88)  ·  1/2-1/2

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <Hang on, those Commie cheats were still in prep here?>

Yeah, I was quite amazed to see that myself, considering the reputation of Fischer's Nh5 as such an original and surprising move. It clearly wasn't the focus of their preparation, but still...

<Krogius: The resulting position [after 12...gxh5] was not very familiar to Sapssky. Before travelling to Reykjavik we looked briefly at this variation and, agreeing with Vasyukov's recommendation, we decided that the plan with 13.b3 was the best one for White. But Spassky suddenly made a move with his knight. Later he explained that he had forgotten our analysis.>

Not that Spassky's Nc4-Ne3 maneuver was necessarily a bad idea, his position really deteriorated only later. But it's scary how deep the Soviet preparation actually was (also if you add the story about game 6, for example).

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Frightening indeed; while Fischer may have had little use for the 'Russians', he had a healthy respect for their capabilities and knew that it would be most unwise to play false with their analysts.

As to the analyses provided by <CharlesSullivan>, without reviewing them in depth, one rather gets the feeling that, despite his extra pawn, White was grimly hanging on through much of this game. Even without reams of analysis, the middlegame looks damnably uncomfortable to defend.

May-22-19  john barleycorn: <perfidious: Frightening indeed; ...>

And Krogius in a later interview said that Spassky's defeat was good for chess in the USSR. More money was pump in and Karpov greatly benefitted from it.

Imagine, how prepared Karpov would show up for a match with Fischer. And here may be an explanation why Spassky scored so poorly against Karpov. On the other hand, how much has Korchnoi benefitted from all this? difficult, really difficult ...

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <And here may be an explanation why Spassky scored so poorly against Karpov. On the other hand, how much has Korchnoi benefitted from all this? difficult, really difficult ...>

If prep was all that it would have done Karpov more good against Korchnoi in 1978. But there weren't many games like Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1974. Karpov's ownership of Spassky, which began early and never let up, doesn't strike me as particularly prep-dependent.

In the Fischer-Spassky match, Geller's line against the QGD, subsequently unleashed on Timman (Timman vs Geller, 1973) was obviously really valuable. But in this game, the prepared move is 21....Rd8, weaker apparently than 21....Be3. And I don't think 13.b3 in game 3 is anything special. Eyal, I'm curious what your book says about Spassky vs Fischer, 1972, where 13.Bxb5 is a near-forced win -- Velmirovic found what the Soviets missed.

In the pre-computer era, prepared lines were a lot dicier than now. It was hard for the preparer to be sure he hadn't missed something.

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: Hang on, though, according to this post Averbakh came up with the 14....Qb7 improvement after game six had been played.

<Joerg Walter

(I = Averbakh)

I only recall that I spoke mainly about the flaws in the theoretical preparation and as an example gave the opening of the sixth game, where Spassky could have played better. I remember the look of surprise on Geller’s face when I pointed out the improvement. The most interesting thing, though, was that a few months after our meeting Geller “caught out” the Dutchman Timman using the variation I’d recommended.>

Timman vs Geller, 1973

There's a link in the kibitz, but it doesn't work any more.

Whatever happened to that Joerg Walter character anyway? He seemed pretty well informed.

May-22-19  technical win: <keypusher: Whatever happened to that Joerg Walter character anyway?> Just in case that wasn't a rhetorical question, he's been User: john barleycorn lately.
May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <technical win> Thanks. I guess I should have stuck a little smiley face in there.
May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <keypusher> There's no comment about the possibility of 13.Bxb5 in game 15, apparently they missed it (after coming up with the strong 12.Qg3 just a move earlier).

With regard to game 6, there seem to be different versions. According to Krogius, "Fischer was counting on a relatively obscure maneuver 14. Bb5 (instead of 14. Be2) to stunt the Black's queenside development. Curiously, the 14. Bb5 variant occurred in the game Furman vs Geller, 1970 (Moscow 1970). Geller defended with 16... Ra7 (Spassky made the same move), but later learned that Black could effortlessly equalize with 16... Qb7, preparing Qb6. Geller said that he told Spassky about that back in 1970." It seems that in general Spassky wasn't very concerned about Fischer playing d4-openings: "The world champion's reply to our suggestion about 1.d4 on the part of Fischer was: 'I'll play the Tartakower-Bondarevsky; what can he achieve?'"

May-22-19  john barleycorn: <technical win: <keypusher: Whatever happened to that Joerg Walter character anyway?> Just in case that wasn't a rhetorical question, he's been User: john barleycorn lately.>

that was never a secret. just the narrative how it happened is little known.

May-22-19  john barleycorn: <keypusher: ...
If prep was all that it would have done Karpov more good against Korchnoi in 1978. But there weren't many games like Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1974. Karpov's ownership of Spassky, which began early and never let up, doesn't strike me as particularly prep-dependent. ...>

Karpov's ownership started in the candidates semifinal 1974 .

Spassky was the yardstick for Karpov. beating Spassky convincingly would / could be seen as a measure for his readiness to play Fischer as there was nothing else there. Just my way in looking at it.

The Karpov-Korchnoi battles have to be rated differently. Preparing for Korchnoi may be different from preparing for Fischer.

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <keypusher>

<But in this game, the prepared move is 21....Rd8, weaker apparently than 21....Be3. >

In other words, the Soviet team failed to find the strongest move in one sideline 21 moves in. That is a ludicrously high standard for judging pre-match preparation. Apparently the Black novelties put the Sozin Attack permanently on the skids, that's pretty good....

I figured I'd point out my own stupidity before someone decided they had to.

<jbc> <ownership>

These things can't be dated precisely, but Karpov vs Spassky, 1973. Karpov also almost got Spassky in the Soviet championship that year. Karpov vs Spassky, 1973. Karpov also came close to losing that game, however....

May-22-19  john barleycorn: Maybe, an expert like <TheFocus> can shed some more light here or even a 3/4 expert like <MissScarlett> ... CG will handle the bill, I hope
May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<john barleycorn: Maybe, an expert like <TheFocus> can shed some more light here or even a 3/4 expert like <MissScarlett> ... CG will handle the bill, I hope>>

You need more German Lager <BarleyBore> lol lol lol

May-22-19  john barleycorn: < keypusher: ...

<jbc> <ownership>

These things can't be dated precisely, but Karpov vs Spassky, 1973. Karpov also almost got Spassky in the Soviet championship that year. Karpov vs Spassky, 1973. Karpov also came close to losing that game, however....>

<Karpov also almost got Spassky> well, that is not exactly "owning". Nor is this <Karpov vs Spassky, 1973. Karpov also came close to losing that game, however...>

See, there is part of our problem in communication. I said Karpov "owned" Spassky from the semifinals in 1974 on. And you reply that Karpov almost "owned" Spassky before that. See it? According to the database here Karpov and Spassky played 5 games before the 1974 semifinals. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: bARLEY BOOOORE GOING INTO MENTAL MELTDOOOOOON on these pages ! lol lol lol lol
May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <jbc>
<See, there is part of our problem in communication. >

You're saying ownership took place in 1974. I'm saying <it can't be precisely dated> but maybe it started in 1973. And you appear to think that infinitesimal difference of opinion is worth a long and vigorous argument.

So, I cannot agree that communication is the problem, or even part of the problem. We're both communicating just fine. The problem is, you're bonkers. Especially about anything that touches, however lightly, on Bobby Fischer.

May-22-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: The Poster <Keypusher> is a NOTORIOUS Robert Fischer HATER on this site.

This needs to be said lol lol lol

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Bobby got outta jail here.

He really was on his own Up against the rest of the chess world which was the SOVIETS.

They knew all his games.

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST.

Discuss

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST.

Discuss>

Groundbreaking and original thoughts.
Is this a conclusion you just reached after strenuous studies and comparative analysis?

May-24-19  john barleycorn: <harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST.

Discuss>

Fischer is the Greatest. Nothing to discuss.

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <Diademas: <harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST. Discuss>

Groundbreaking and original thoughts.
Is this a conclusion you just reached after strenuous studies and comparative analysis?>

You been in a COMA this last 70 years ?

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: : <harrylime: <Diademas: <harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST. Discuss> Groundbreaking and original thoughts. Is this a conclusion you just reached after strenuous studies and comparative analysis?> You been in a COMA this last 70 years ?>

Well, for 19 of them I hadn't even been born.
Sarcasm not your strength?

May-24-19  john barleycorn: <Diademas: : ...

Sarcasm not your strength?>

not in the last 19 years.

May-24-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <Diademas: : <harrylime: <Diademas: <harrylime: Robert Fischer is the GREATEST. Discuss> Groundbreaking and original thoughts. Is this a conclusion you just reached after strenuous studies and comparative analysis?> You been in a COMA this last 70 years ?> Well, for 19 of them I hadn't even been born.
Sarcasm not your strength?>

Actually itz my GREATEST STRENGTH .

You ok ? lol lol

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