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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 32 OF 32 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jul-28-21
 | | kbob: Does anyone know why 11. .. Be6 is considered best for black, after he earlier made plans for a queenside fianchetto? |
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Jul-28-21
 | | MissScarlett: Have a look at <Tartakower Variation> here: https://archive.org/details/TheOxfo... |
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| Jul-28-21 | | George Wallace: <kbob: Does anyone know why 11. .. Be6 is considered best for black, after he earlier made plans for a queenside fianchetto?> Black is going to play ...c5 and if he can, ...c4. The bishop on e6 supports a later ...c4. White might have to play b3 in order to restrict black's pawns and then black has something to grab on to, with, say, ...a5, ...a4. Also, if after ...c5 White plays dc, then after Black recaptures with his b-pawn, he can use the b-file for his rook, without the bishop being in the way on b7. |
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Jul-28-21
 | | perfidious: <kbob>, following through with the fianchetto is playable and was seen now and again in those days, but leads to positions which are slightly, but annoyingly better for White: the prelate at b7 has little to do but look after the pawn on d5 and Black will have the hanging pawns and vague prospects of getting play in return for taking on that weakness. The placement on e6 looks to offer altogether more potential for long-term activity. |
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Jul-28-21
 | | diceman: <kbob: Does anyone know why 11. .. Be6 is considered best for black, after he earlier made plans for a queenside fianchetto?> He made those plans with a white pawn on c4.
After the exchange on d5, there is no way to move the d5 pawn. It is <stuck> on d5. If the bishop is placed on b7 with white's pawn still on c4, black can open his bishop
by capturing on c4, or if white exchanges on d5, capture with the bishop. |
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| Jul-31-21 | | Omnipotent00001: You're not human!
"without the sun there wouldn't be any seasons." "There are these machines and I bring them to life." There's a poem by goethe that must be about 200 years old. Erlkonig |
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| Jul-31-21 | | Muttley101: <perfidious: <...the position takes on an all the more technical character and is all the more in keeping with Fischer's standard - the better position without counter-play for the opponent. Perhaps, all chess players love such situations. But Fischer loves them in particular.>
This bit from Tal is standard Soviet propaganda of those days, a criticism seen well before annotations of this game and noted by Levy in <How Fischer Plays Chess>.> Some corrections.
1. Tal wasn't a Soviet, he was a Latvian. It's not splitting hairs, he actually corrected someone over this (iirc it was at an Olympiad), saying "No, I am a Latvian". Ironically, lumping all the players from different nations invaded by Russia as "Soviets" was typical Soviet propaganda. 2. Tal's characterisation of the position is a chess appraisal of the nature of the position and an accurate one, and his appraisal of Fischer's style and preferences is also a fair one and not derogatory. |
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Jul-31-21
| | perfidious: Indeed Tal was Latvian, but it is by no means incorrect to characterise such output of those days from behind the Iron Curtain as Soviet. |
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Jul-31-21
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<perfidious> is correct when he writes: <Indeed Tal was Latvian, but it is by no means incorrect to characterise such output of those days from behind the Iron Curtain as Soviet.> For more insight on this topic, see Genna Sosonko's lengthy, and most excellent personal reminiscence of <Tal> in "World Champions I Knew". See also Tal's own autobiography for that matter. The categorical statement "Tal wasn't a Soviet" is just flat wrong. |
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Jul-31-21
| | MissScarlett: Wasn't Fischer called the leading player of the Soviet chess school? |
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Jul-31-21
 | | harrylime: Fischer has been called many many things !
Golembek and Najforf both described him as the MOZART of chess ... which always makes me smile seeing carlsen now labelled this too... |
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Jul-31-21
| | harrylime: <<MissScarlett: Wasn't Fischer called the leading player of the Soviet chess school?>> This is because Fischer learnt Russian and devoured all the Russian chess mags .... just ate them alive.
Fischer was the chess internet before chess on the internet. This is why I always say ...
I fear for now when putting a young Bobby with access to the net and chessbase ect .... He would wreck havoc... |
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Jul-31-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<Hozza> A rare Fischer mistake on your part! Bobby was fond of milk, chocolate, milk chocolate and chocolate milk. There is no credible evidence that he ate chess magazines. Reported. |
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| Aug-26-21 | | Justin796: Fischer is terrible! So is Spassky! I'd say Daniel Naroditsky would pounce them all! Especially in blitz! |
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Aug-26-21
 | | Joshka: <Muttley101> <No, I am a Latvian> Reminds me of my maternal great uncle who always would chastise people who would call him Russian. "No, I'm Ukrainian"!! My grandmother was the same way as well...hated being lumped together with Soviets!! |
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Aug-26-21
 | | fredthebear: The Ukrainians have resisted being controlled by the Russian empire since 1917. The Ukraine gained it's independence in 1991 when the U.S.S.R. dissolved. The struggle for autonomy continues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo... |
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| Sep-20-21 | | Gaito: 
click for larger viewThis is the position of the game Petrosian vs. Trikaliotis, Siegen, 1970, after 13...a6. Compare with the following diagram:
click for larger view
which is the position of the Fischer vs. Spassky game after 14..a6 |
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| Sep-20-21 | | RookFile: In other words, Spassky interpolated ...h6. Good for him, he won't be checkmated on the back rank. |
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| Mar-04-22 | | Canadian chesser: Neil McDonald in his book on the QGD also indicates 14...a6 in response to White's Bb5 as the error costing Black the game. He tells us that Geller found the correct move of 14...Qb7 shortly after in Timman-Geller, Hilversum 1973. To quote McDonald, "Fischer had essayed 14.Bb5 against Spassky in their 1972 World Championship match. It had been a relatively new move at the time and, as usual, the effect of surprise far outweighed the actual merits of the move. ... A bad line often escapes criticism because it has a fantastic success in a big name game (and you don't get much bigger than Fischer-Spassky, Reykjavik 1972). But believe me, Geller's move 14...Qb7 refutes White's plan." (p. 46) By "White's plan" he is referring to 14.Bb5 as White's "winning attempt". Geller's "hidden tactical resource" of 14...Qb7 completely wrecked that plan and even "forces [White] to think how to equalize!"
The Timman-Geller game continued, after Black's Qb7, with this forced short sequence on the queenside: 15.dxc5 bxc5 16.Rxc5 Rxc5 17.Qxc5 Na6. McDonald gives Black's last move an exclamation mark, explaining that it forces White to take the knight. He is implying that from then on White is struggling to equalize --i.e. Black is better-- and eventually is beaten. (This despite White being up a pawn after this short sequence!) Note that if 18. Qc6 instead of the knight capture in this sequence then: 18...Qxc6 19.Bxc6 Rb8, and if White tries to save the pawn with b3 then Black plays R-QB1 and wins the bishop due to the back row danger! (Analysis by McDonald (p. 47).) |
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| Mar-04-22 | | RookFile: Interesting, the computer does say black is slightly better with Qb7. Geller's idea was certainly known in the 1970's but I didn't know it was this good for black. |
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| Mar-05-22 | | Canadian chesser: Thanks <RookFile> for testing 14...Qb7 on a computer (I haven't graduated to computer-assisted study yet). I'm glad the result supports the gist of my post! Apropos this move, <rigel1503> has argued: <To me, Timman's problems stem from the pawn grab on c5 before he ensures the safety of his king. Instead of 15. dxc5, why not 15. O-O. I don't see the need for rushing dxc5. Eg: 15. O-O c4 16. Qd6 Nc6 17. Ne5 Nxe5 18. Qxe5 Qc7 19. f4 Qxe5 20. fxe5 leaves White dominant due to Black's bad bishop, wooden inflexible pawn centre and cramped position.> However, Neil McDonald in his analysis of Timman vs Geller, 1973 is convincing in saying 15.dxc5 is forced "Or else 15...c4 shuts out the white pieces." (Page 47) |
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| Mar-05-22 | | Olavi: McDonald is quoting from Geller's analysis, in English in his Pergamon Press games collection The Apllication of Chess Theory. Of course the ideas are well known. |
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| Apr-06-22 | | jerseybob: <fredthebear: The Ukrainians have resisted being controlled by the Russian empire since 1917. The Ukraine gained it's independence in 1991 when the U.S.S.R. dissolved. The struggle for autonomy continues:> Very prescient post! |
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| May-12-22 | | Herr Stauffenberg: If 41. ...Qg8
41...Qg8 42. Rxh6+ Rh7 43. Qf6+ Qg7 44. Rxh7+ Kxh7 45. Bd3+ Kh8 46. Qd8+ Qg8 47. Qxc7 |
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| May-16-22 | | Herr Stauffenberg: <Canadian cheser> 16. Qd6 ??? Why not eat enemy Queen? |
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sac: 38.Rxf6