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Viktor Korchnoi vs Robert James Fischer
"Little Jack Horner's Revenge" (game of the day Oct-12-2010)
Herceg Novi blitz (1970) (blitz), Herceg Novi MNE, rd 10, Apr-08
King's Indian Defense: Orthodox Variation. Modern System (E97)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 89 times; par: 46 [what's this?]

Annotations by Robert James Fischer.      [15 more games annotated by Fischer]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-05-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <Carrots and Pizza>

<But Steinitz' opponents were a combination of barely masters and coffee house club champions.>

<I did not say Steinitz was a coffeehouse player, but half of his opponents were.> No, you didn't.

Now you are backpeddling, because of Blackburne, Anderssen, Rosenthal, Bird and Paulsen.

I bet you quickly took a peep at Vienna 1873. Otherwise you had not stated 'half of his opponents...' so suddenly.

May I ask you.. did you ever consult a psychiatrist?

Jan-05-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: "He's playing through the entire game in a few seconds.. every move!"
Jan-05-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <WPE>

<May I ask you.. did you ever consult a psychiatrist?>

Straitjacket, meet padded cell.

Jan-05-20  Carrots and Pizza: < WorstPlayerEver: <Carrots and Pizza>

<But Steinitz' opponents were a combination of barely masters and coffee house club champions.>

<I did not say Steinitz was a coffeehouse player, but half of his opponents were.> No, you didn't.

Now you are backpeddling, because of Blackburne, Anderssen, Rosenthal, Bird and Paulsen. >

Barely masters by today's standards. Fischer's opponents were professional chess players.

I get the feeling the <worstplayerever> is a little jealous that America has the greatest chess genius of all times. He seems kind of sour grapes to me. "You can have Fischer. He wasn't so good anyways!"

Steinitz' opponents were like strong amateurs with a few exceptions, so his winning streak of 25 games is not as impressive as Fischer's winning 20 (it was 20?).

Jan-06-20  Granny O Doul: Fischer's winning streak is counted either as 19, 20, or 21. The two sometimes-counted-sometimes-not games are the Panno game from the last round of the Interzonal (1.c4 Black resigns; the argument for counting it is that Panno did resign rather than forfeit), and a rescheduled game from early in the tournament that was actually played during the winning streak.

Personally, I think 20 is the most sensible number (I count the rescheduled but not the 1... resigns game).

Jan-06-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <Carrots and Pizza>

I obviously admit that I am somewhat jealous, but that does not really matter, does it?

What does matter is that you are comparing apples to oranges.

And yes, all these chessmetrics flow out for one reason: to keep the idol intact.

It's as shallow as can be IMO, and foremost.. it's what Fischer made the man he did become. After all.

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <RandomVisitor> Long time no hear. Have you considered upgrading to system with one or two GPUs? This would allow you to use LC0 which is currently rated near Stockfish, at least when 4 cores are used. Because of the different approaches that LC0 and Stockfish use, you might find it interesting to compare their results.

I you are interested, here's a link to a post that describes several considerations when using LC0 with GPUs: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/vie....

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: If it takes Stockfish over two days to eke out a line ending in rough equality for White, how could anyone expect an all-time great to suss out the correct defence in the five minutes allotted him?
Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: Back to the game..

Excerpt from Fischer's comment (as it is addressed by chessgames):

<And here Korchnoi thought for about a minute and a half and not seeing a defence to the double threat of 31...Bxe2 and 32...Qh4+ resigned.0-1>

Corrected:

<And here Korchnoi thought for about a minute and a half and (not able to find a defence against the double threat of 32... Bxe2 and 32... Qh4+) resigned. 0-1>

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: PS

I think there was nothing wrong with Korchnoi's eyes; he just could not detect a defence and resigned.

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <WorstPlayerEver> Fischer was a native speaker of American English.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dic...

"See: to perceive by the eye; to perceive or detect as if by sight; to be aware of; to imagine as a possibility; to form a mental picture of; to perceive the meaning or importance of; to come to know...."

I think there is nothing wrong with your eyes, but maybe you didn't see the polysemy.

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <beatgigant>

Not my point.

Anyone with the appropriate eyesight can perceive (see) the board and its chessmen. But detecting actual chess defences on that board is another story. Therefore I deliberately distinguished between 'seeing' and 'detecting' in my previous comment.

Because in this case we are - obviously - speaking of two different things.

Then again, speaking of perception.. my comment focused on the made mistake in the main comment on this game afaiac- in what is supposedly to be regarded as being Fischer's comment - as it is addressed to Fischer by chessgames dot com.

That comment is wrong. Because it,s <32... Bxe2> and not <31... Bxe2> FYI

In other words: did chessgames - or Fischer made that mistake...?

Question, questions..

Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <WorstPlayerEver> I see.
Jan-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <beatgigant>

I am willing to compromise.

<And here Korchnoi thought for about a minute and a half and (not seeing a defence to the double threat of 32... Bxe2 and 32... Qh4+) resigned. 0-1>

Jan-07-20  RandomVisitor: <AylerKupp>Yes, LC0 is a curiosity worth investigating. It would be a sad day if/when randomly generated code becomes the best computer chess program...
Jan-08-20  RandomVisitor: After 24.Be1, 24...Nh4 and 25...Nxg2 are playable


click for larger view

Stockfish_19121008_x64_modern:

<66/115 77:27:51 -0.72 24...Nh4 25.Rd3 Nxg2> 26.Kxg2 Qe8 27.Nd2 Qg6+ 28.Kf2 Bxh3 29.Bf3 Bc8 30.Ke2 Rh2+ 31.Bf2 Ng4 32.Qg1 Rxf2+ 33.Ke1 Rxf3 34.Nxf3 Bf6 35.Rd2 Bd8 36.Ra2 Ne3 37.Qxg6+ hxg6 38.Rab2 Bc7 39.Nb5 Bxa5+ 40.Ke2 Nxc4 41.Ra2 Bg4 42.Kd3 Bxf3 43.Kxc4 Bb6 44.Nxd6 Rd8 45.Rf1 Bh5 46.Nb5 Rd7 47.Rg1 Kf7 48.Nc3 Rd8 49.Nd1 Bf3 50.Nc3 Kf6 51.Rf2 Bh5 52.Rfg2 Rb8 53.d6 Bd8 54.Rd2 Ke6 55.Nd5 a5 56.Kxc5 Rc8+ 57.Kb5 g5 58.d7 Rb8+ 59.Kc6 Bg6 60.Nc7+ Kf7 61.Nd5 Bxe4 62.Kd6 Bxd5 63.Kxd5 Kf6 64.Rh1 Be7 65.Rh7 Bb4 66.Ra2 g4 67.Ke4 Rd8 68.Rh6+ Kg5

Jan-08-20  RandomVisitor: After 24...Nh8 25.Nd2! and 97 hours of thinking Stockfish is not impressed...


click for larger view

Stockfish_19121008_x64_modern:

<73/104 97:00:51 0.00 25.Nd2 Rg6 26.Rd3 Nf7> 27.a6 h6 28.Qa4 Bf8 29.Nd1 Ng5 30.Nf2 Bd7 31.Qa3 Rg7 32.Rdb3 Qe8 33.Rb7 h5 34.R1b3 Qg6 35.Bf1 Re7 36.Rb1 Ree8 37.Be2 Bc8 38.h4 Ngh7 39.Rc7 Ng4 40.Nxg4 hxg4 41.Qa4 f3 42.Bf1 Bh6 43.Qc6 Bxa6 44.Qxa6 Be3+ 45.Bf2 Qh6 46.Bxe3 Qxe3+ 47.Kh1 Qf2 48.g3 Qxg3 49.Qxd6 Qxh4+ 50.Kg1 Nf6 51.Rb3 Qg3+ 52.Kh1 Qf4 53.Rbb7 Qh6+ 54.Kg1 Qe3+ 55.Kh1

Jan-08-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <RandomVisitor:

and 97 hours of thinking Stockfish is not impressed...>

Stockfish would have flagged 96 hours and 55 minutes ago! :)

Jan-08-20  RandomVisitor: <diceman>Yes, this was after all a blitz game. But how often can you say that you have constructed analysis better than Fischer could? Or in reverse, Fischer could compete, on a few seconds of thought, with a modern computer working for 97 hours.
Jan-11-20  RandomVisitor: A final look after 24.Be1, the machine prefers 24...Nh4 to Fischer's 24...Nh8


click for larger view

Stockfish_19121008_x64_modern:

<69/100 164:45:35 -0.52 24...Nh4 25.Rd3 Nxg2 26.Kxg2 Qe8 27.Nd2 Qg6+ 28.Kf2 Bxh3> 29.Bf3 Bc8 30.Ke2 Rh2+ 31.Bf2 Ng4 32.Qg1 Rxf2+ 33.Ke1 Rxf3 34.Nxf3 Bf6 35.Rd2 Bd8 36.Ra2 Ne3 37.Qxg6+ hxg6 38.Rab2 Bc7 39.Nb5 Bxa5+ 40.Ke2 Nxc4 41.Ra2 Bg4 42.Kd3 Bxf3 43.Kxc4 Bb6 44.Nxd6 Rd8 45.Rf1 Bh5 46.Nb5 Rd7 47.Rh2 Kg7 48.Nc3 Kf6 49.Na4 Rb7 50.Rb1 Bf3 51.Nc3 Rf7 52.Rf1 Bg4 53.Rg1 Bh5 54.Nb5 Rh7 55.Ra1 g5 56.Nxa7 g4 57.Ra6 g3 58.Rxb6+ Kg5 59.Ra2 f3 60.Rb1 Kf4 61.Kxc5 f2 62.Nc6 Bf3 63.Rf1 Bxe4 64.Rfa1 Rb7 65.Ra6

Jan-21-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<RandomVisitor> It would be a sad day if/when randomly generated code becomes the best computer chess program...>

Yes, as Einstein might have said: Caissa does not play dice with the universe.

Jan-21-20  Petrosianic: <Granny O Doul>: <the argument for counting it is that Panno did resign rather than forfeit),>

If he'd made a move, I'd agree with that argument. Without a move, the game is unratable, and no different than a forfeit.

Ratable or not, it is a victory, though, just as Reshevsky won that match with Fischer 7˝-5˝.

The game played out of order, I would definitely count as part of the streak.

Jan-22-20  Petrosianic: Anyway, as I was saying before the Trolling break, I'd definitely count the game played out of order. If the streak is about consecutive number of wins, that means how many times in a row you actually sat down at the board and won the game. If part of what makes a streak impressive is how many hard games you play in a row, without rest games breaking up the load, then a game played in the wrong order would add to that tension. If you played Round 6, 7, 1, and 8 in that order, and won them all, then you've won 4 in a row, even though it doesn't look that way in the crosstable.
Jan-22-20  Petrosianic: Of course, for that reason, a 5 game winning streak in one event is more impressive than a 5 game streak spread out over two events.
Jan-25-20  yskid: Hi,
Is anyone up to date with current status of Mar-Del-Plata variation in 9.b4 and 9. Ne1 line?
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