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Mikhail Tal vs Robert James Fischer
Herceg Novi blitz (1970) (blitz), Herceg Novi MNE, rd 1, Apr-08
Sicilian Defense: Modern Variations (B50)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-20-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: < RTJR: Of the 11 classical games that Fischer and Tal played against each other, Fischer won only two. Tal won four, and the other five were draws. We can talk about age-differences and the times they were playing, but the stats do not bear out any Fischer dominance over Tal. >

It is unfortunate there were not more games between them in the later years, BUT one must note the nature of the scores. ALL of Tal's wins were in 1959, and Fischer was still a junior player of only 15 years old. Tal became world champion the following year. Fischer was still climbing the ranks gaining experience and strength. It is significant that Tal never beat Bobby again after 1959. All Bobby's wins were in their later years. AND in 1988 when i played Tal, the chess club was invited to ask the great Tal questions before the simul. One of them was "Can you tell us your opinion of Bobby Fischer?" Tal went on to say that after their initial encounters Bobby was getting stronger and stronger, and in 1972 was probably one of the greatest players who ever lived. All of the best GM's respected him, and many feared playing him. He also said one of the greatest regrets for the chess world is that he stopped playing, because he was producing some of the most beautiful and historic games. Tal was humble about it, and admitted in not so many words that Bobby was the unquestionable BEST at his prime (1970-72). No one dominated the chess world like him.

Nov-25-16  drleper: <PawnSac: < diceman: Fischer was so afraid of Capablanca, he made sure he was born after his death. >

nonsense.. Fischer admired Capablanca, and his play began to resemble that of the Cuban>

I think you'll find that was what is known as a joke :P

Nov-20-19  m.okun: This is a blitz, and thatís it. In a normal game, Tal would not have lost at least such an ending.
May-15-20  Saul Goodman: Fischer was very troubled as a person, and disappeared a few times before making his final assault on the title. When he finally focused all of his energy on winning the World Championship, he was about 150 elo points better than everyone else. There has never been a player before or after who exceeded his competition as much as Fischer did.
May-15-20  Viking707: Fischer was certainly one of the greatest chess players, but it's unfortunate that during his prime years, the Russian's controlled the chess world and would not let Botvinnik play Fischer for the title, until there was big money for a Spassky match. Bobby definitely distrusted the Russians, but when it came to their control of chess, he wasn't being paranoid.
May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < Viking707: Fischer was certainly one of the greatest chess players, but it's unfortunate that during his prime years, the Russian's controlled the chess world and would not let Botvinnik play Fischer for the title, until there was big money for a Spassky match. Bobby definitely distrusted the Russians, but when it came to their control of chess, he wasn't being paranoid.>

Utter crap. Botvinnik lost the title for the last time in 1963, when Fischer was 20, and a year after heíd finished in the middle of the pack in the qualifying tournament.

<Saul Goodman>. Morphy gave a simul against five of the strongest players of his time. Steinitz won every match for 32 years. I donít think Fischer was any more dominant than Lasker in the late 1890s, Casablanca around 1920, Alekhine around 1930, or Botvinnik in the late 40s. The only reason Kasparov doesnít show up as dominant as Fischer around 1990 is that he had Karpov to deal with. Even so, he managed to be a clear #1 in chess for 20 straight years. And Carlsen has been #1 continuously for a decade now.

May-15-20  RookFile: It's too bad Tal didn't play 45. Kd6. It's possible that Fischer might have just resigned. But that's blitz, I guess.
May-15-20  Viking707: Keypusher: Fischer was deranged, and a terrible person, but his accusations about the Russians were true. During Botvinnik's reign the Russians did many things to insure their control of the World Chess, as the testimony of Grandmasters Nicolai Krogius, and Albert Denker show in the attached article. In a one-on-one match with Botvinnik, without Russian "game playing," I believe Fischer would have won. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...
May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <Viking707: In a one-on-one match with Botvinnik, without Russian "game playing," I believe Fischer would have won.>

Since Botvinnik didn't even manage to win a single WC-match outright as a defending champion against four different Soviet opponents, that may very well be true.
The problem is that Fischer didn't even come close to qualifying to such a match.

May-15-20  RookFile: So this topic is a little ambiguous because there was a proposal for a Botvinnik vs. Fischer match after Botvinnik got defeated by Petrosian. Botvinnik isn't my favorite guy but I believe he would have cheerfully played such a match.
May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<RookFile: So this topic is a little ambiguous because there was a proposal for a Botvinnik vs. Fischer match after Botvinnik got defeated by Petrosian. Botvinnik isn't my favorite guy but I believe he would have cheerfully played such a match.>>

Coz he knew he'd have the Soviet School of Chess behind his back ..

Fischer v Botvinnik was

Fischer v THE SOVIET UNION

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<RookFile: It's too bad Tal didn't play 45. Kd6. It's possible that Fischer might have just resigned. But that's blitz, I guess.>>

We don't know the times ..

you're treating this like a classical game.

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Bobby faffed this tournament off in his sleeeeeeeeeeeeep lol lol
May-15-20  Viking707: In a one-on-one match with both players playing without "outside assistance," Fischer's intensity, and creativity would probably have won the day.
May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<Viking707: In a one-on-one match with both players playing without "outside assistance," Fischer's intensity, and creativity would probably have won the day.>>

lol lol lol

You dont say

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Bobby was a million miles ahead of his time at this point.

No internet. CHECK
No database. CHECK
No engines. CHECK
Bobby Fischer present. CHECK

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <harrylime: <<RookFile: It's too bad Tal didn't play 45. Kd6. It's possible that Fischer might have just resigned. But that's blitz, I guess.>> We don't know the times ..>

We actually do.
<Each player had five minutes for the whole game, the usual time-limit for blitz before the introduction of electronic clocks.> https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-b...

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < RookFile: So this topic is a little ambiguous because there was a proposal for a Botvinnik vs. Fischer match after Botvinnik got defeated by Petrosian. Botvinnik isn't my favorite guy but I believe he would have cheerfully played such a match.>

And for the avoidance of doubt, as they say, if that match had been played in 1970, then yeah, Fischer would have crushed Botvinnik.

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: That match was played earlier than 1970

Bobby won.

Bobby crushed the Soviet School of Chess.

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <harrylime: That match was played earlier than 1970 Bobby won.

Bobby crushed the Soviet School of Chess.>

I know you couldn't care less, but here are Fischer's score against the best Soviets prior to 1970:

Viktor Korchnoi tied Robert James Fischer 2 to 2, with 3 draws.

Boris Spassky beat Robert James Fischer 2 to 0, with 2 draws

Robert James Fischer tied Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian 2 to 2, with 9 draws

Robert James Fischer tied Mikhail Botvinnik 0 to 0, with 1 draw

Mikhail Tal beat Robert James Fischer 4 to 2, with 5 draws

Robert James Fischer tied David Bronstein 0 to 0, with 2 draws

Robert James Fischer beat Vasily Smyslov 2 to 1, with 3 draws

Robert James Fischer beat Paul Keres 4 to 3, with 3 draws

Efim Geller beat Robert James Fischer 5 to 2, with 2 draws

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<RookFile> It's too bad Tal didn't play 45. Kd6. It's possible that Fischer might have just resigned.>

I doubt it, even though after 45.Kd6 Stockfish 11 indicates that White has a mate in 20. Depending on his remaining time (there were no increments in those days), Tal could have easily missed the winning moves along the way. He might even have lost as he did in the game or on time. Because, as you said, that's blitz.

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<Diademas: <harrylime: That match was played earlier than 1970 Bobby won. Bobby crushed the Soviet School of Chess.>

I know you couldn't care less, but here are Fischer's score against the best Soviets prior to 1970:

Viktor Korchnoi tied Robert James Fischer 2 to 2, with 3 draws.

Boris Spassky beat Robert James Fischer 2 to 0, with 2 draws

Robert James Fischer tied Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian 2 to 2, with 9 draws

Robert James Fischer tied Mikhail Botvinnik 0 to 0, with 1 draw

Mikhail Tal beat Robert James Fischer 4 to 2, with 5 draws

Robert James Fischer tied David Bronstein 0 to 0, with 2 draws

Robert James Fischer beat Vasily Smyslov 2 to 1, with 3 draws

Robert James Fischer beat Paul Keres 4 to 3, with 3 draws

Efim Geller beat Robert James Fischer 5 to 2, with 2 draws>>

And ?????? lol lol lol

Bobby beat the corrupt cheatin Commie Soviet School of Chess ... on his own.

May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: You must admit, <Bobby crushed the Soviet School of Chess>, has a better ring to it than <Bobby Fischer mildly inconvenienced the Soviet Chess School>.
May-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Bobby faffed this tournament off as a breeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.... I'm pretty sure he got Tal 2 nil ...
May-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Game 74 in Russians versus Fischer by Dmitry Plisetsky and Sergey Voronkov
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