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Boris Spassky vs Robert James Fischer
"Bish, You Were Here" (game of the day Apr-13-2019)
Spassky - Fischer World Championship Match (1972), Reykjavik ISL, rd 1, Jul-11
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Normal Variation. Gligoric System Bernstein Defense (E56)  ·  1-0

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FEN COPIED

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Boris Spassky vs Robert James Fischer (1972) Bish, You Were Here


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 45 OF 45 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-03-20  Petrosianic: <perfidious: How 'bout me? I'm a life 1200 player! Think I'd have a shot?>

Well, the trick is to actually work at it. The C24 crowd isn't interested in discussing, analyzing or understanding the game. It's just a Walter Mitty kind of thing. They like to quote the eval, pretend it came out of their own heads, and trash talk GM's for not seeing the same moves they "saw". The computer can be an enormous aid to learning, but if you just let it do all your thinking for you, you'll never learn anything.

Worse yet, the eval available to non-paying members on C24 is a weak one with a short horizon, and is often wrong, sometimes laughably. I remember one game where Black was like 3 pawns up, but it was a Bishops of Opposite Colors ending, and pretty obviously a draw. But the Eval rated it -4.49, so the Willful Patzer Brigade kept pronouncing it won, and ignoring everyone who explained why it wasn't. Then when it was finally drawn, they were shocked. "How did that happen??" when several people had already told them. That kind of thing happens relatively often.

Sep-03-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Retireborn: In one of his books, Speelman gives 15 pages of analysis of this ending. I never had the courage to wade throught it all, but his conclusions (in 1981!) were; 29...Bxh2 shouldn't lose, it takes more errors 37...Ke4, 39...f5 to lose; and Olafsson's 36.Kg4 was better than Spassky's 36.a4, but not quite enough to win either.
Sep-03-20  SChesshevsky: < Petrosianic: ...They like to quote the eval, pretend it came out of their own heads, and trash talk GM's for not seeing the same moves they "saw". The computer can be an enormous aid to learning, but if you just let it do all your thinking for you, you'll never learn anything...>

The problem with all this endgame analysis is that it misses the major point. Spassky found a subtle, maybe obvious maybe not, move that changes the dynamic. Goes from a maybe probable draw, with lines that Fischer probably expected, to a difficult one at best with Fischer likely lost practically speaking.

What's the move and why practically lost? Check out the photo.

Sep-03-20  Petrosianic: <29...Bxh2 shouldn't lose,>

ASSUMING perfect play, which one can never assume in a difficult position with limited time. In reality, the move carries enormous risk of loss. Before Bxh2 was a position which Black could literally draw with his eyes closed.

Sep-03-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Hi Petrosianic,

"The C24 crowd isn't interested in discussing, analyzing or understanding the game. It's just a Walter Mitty kind of thing."

I watch the live games if they are not here on Chess Bomb, it's the same there.

The players move quick, the computer they use (which apparently is not top of the range) is sometimes not allowed long enough to 'think' so an OK move is sometimes flagged as a gross blunder and posted in bright red because it is not the computers top choice. This has the Mitty's whooping with joy.

When the computer catches up with the position it's eval evens out from say +2.69 to 0.20 the Miittys think one of the players has blundered a won game and start slagging them off.

I try to ignore them but their comments can sometimes be more entertaining than the game.

***

Sep-03-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Those rare times I resort to Chess24, I have to ignore the commentary, which is analogous to a group of young turks in live poker maundering on over who just won the last major event and slagging them. Bores me to tears.
Sep-04-20  Petrosianic: Occasionally, they clamp down and allow only paying members to chat, which improves it a bit. The paying members are generally a little more serious about chess. Of course I can't chat when they do that, but it's more worth reading. I'd never pay for that site unless they got rid of the onscreen eval that seems to be the only thing half the commenters look at.
Sep-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  NM JRousselle: Does 37... a6 hold the balance for Black?
Sep-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <NM JRousselle: Does 37... a6 hold the balance for Black?>

I forgive you for not searching the 45 pages of kibitzing, although there is a search button.

Someone has posted above saying Mednis suggested 37...a6 but did not post analysis. A couple of times the very similar idea 36...a6 was analyzed above with computers, with a draw claimed, but with some unconvincing lines.

So it's a slightly open question, but the answer is probably yes.

Sep-04-20  SChesshevsky: <Someone has posted above saying Mednis suggested 37...a6 but did not post analysis. A couple of times the very similar idea 36...a6 was analyzed above with computers, with a draw claimed, but with some unconvincing lines.>

Mednis idea, and some of the posted computer analysis I believe, is that Black can draw by eventually getting a blockade stalemate position on the qside with white wrong B. Maybe not the precise line , but something like: 37...a6 38. bxa6 bxa6 39. Bb4 Ke4 40. Bc5 f5 41. Kh4 e5 42. Kg5 f4 43. exf4 exf4 44. Kg6 f3 45. Kxg7 f2 46. Bxf2.

Idea probably has merit and maybe Fischer would've went for it had he the overnight to analyze. But there are three reasons why the chances of Fischer seeing it and trusting it OTB here are extremely low.

He didn't calculate and play 29...Bxh2 figuring there was even the need to bail out being a B and pawn down but stalemate.

There are many variations to calculate correctly. Even if the stalemate plan does work and there's no assurance that it does. An extremely tough calculation effort OTB when it's a complete change of course from the prior plan and you also feel suicidely foolish for taking on h2.

Besides feeling foolish, you also feel stupid for missing something in your earlier calculation to put you in this position. Now, if this relatively passive try for a draw fails, there is the potential for additional humiliation on top of the substantial humiliation already incurred.

So it's probably not surprising Fischer goes for activity and continuing his idea.

Sep-04-20  Petrosianic: <SChesshevsky>: <The problem with all this endgame analysis is that it misses the major point. Spassky found a subtle, maybe obvious maybe not, move that changes the dynamic.>

We don't know if Spassky found it or not. The common wisdom is that Fischer changed his own plan before executing it.

Most people have thought that Fischer's plan was 30. g3 h5 31. Ke2 h4 32. Kf3 h3 33. Kg4 Bg1 34. Kxh3 Kxf2, but had overlooked that after 35. Bd2, his Bishop was still trapped.

So, instead of h3, Fischer played 32...Ke7, activating his King faster, since the Bishop was lost in any case.

Sep-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Match of the Century indeed.

What a Bobby would do now in today's internet world huh ??

Sep-04-20  SChesshevsky: < Petrosianic: ...Most people have thought that Fischer's plan was 30. g3 h5...>

I don't believe that Fischer thought he could save the B at all. Think his miss was later and the photo was related to that later miss.

Sep-04-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Fischer would be a Great White in the water amongst Turtles swimming with the net today.
Sep-05-20  Petrosianic: Stop trolling, Harry. The big boys are talking.
Sep-05-20  Petrosianic: SChesshevsky: < Petrosianic: ...Most people have thought that Fischer's plan was 30. g3 h5...>

<I don't believe that Fischer thought he could save the B at all. Think his miss was later and the photo was related to that later miss.>

Could be. At Sveti Stefan, Fischer confirmed that Bxh2 was an oversight, but he wasn't clear on exactly what he was thinking.

Sep-06-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <<Petrosianic: Stop trolling, Harry. The big boys are talking.>>

Fischer's chess style had an arrogance. This game is no greater display of this.

Or put another way ... I think Bobby was believing all the the hubris and BS walking into this match and had thoughts of invincibility .

This was soon dispelled and Bobby adapted.

Sep-06-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: BOBBY 1 v 0 THE WORLD
Sep-06-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: Bobby Fischer

Came

Saw

Conquered

Sep-07-20  jith1207: More like

Conquered

Bewildered

Schizophreniad

Sep-07-20  jith1207: <Sally Simpson>

I like following games Live in <Chess24> as you can turn off the comments when looking at the scoresheet alongside the board, which helps to look at the moves played and replay the game as well.

That's even more better when I usually follow live in their mobile app where there are no comments section at all.

<ChessBomb> is always funnier, especially when the bright and slight red move markings go awry.

I used to follow and love <ChessDom> as they have only games and computer evaluations to look at and nothing else, and I like their Web interface than others especially that's the best site to follow chess in an event that has so many number of simultaneous games going on like Opens, Olympiad, World Cup, team events, etc.,

Sep-07-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Hi jith1207,

I have tried Chess24 but it makes my kit run clunky. Chess bomb is fine and as I said sometimes the comments are more interesting (wrong word, hilarious, is more apt.) than the games.

***

Nov-09-20  asiduodiego: <Petrosianic> <One thing to keep in mind, though, is that when beginners say an ending is easy, they mean WITH computer assistance. If you've watched games live on C24, you know the ritual where half the posters will do nothing except watch the eval, report all of its changes, and boldly proclaim that "Somebody blundered!" when it changes by more than 0.2. To them that constitutes commenting on the game themselves. To that mindset, the larger the advantage, the easier it is to convert, which is sometimes true, but often not.>

That's why I always close the chat while watching the games on C24. In the first place, is annoying, and second, all they do is just copy and paste the line predicted by the engine and calling "patzer" the player who doesn't follow the line. Congratulations, you know how to click in a screen and copy-paste a line.

I'm not a good chess player, but if you REALLY want to get a glimpse of what's going on, use the line as a reference, not as the "absolute and irrefutable truth". Try to play the line yourself, and think on the alternatives, and then you can grow as a player.

Dec-19-20  petermccaughey1964: (first post) I would appreciate any analysis on my assertion that 32....g5. 33.Kg2 g4 34. KxB h3 leads to a draw. (The idea is to create a protected passed pawn that locks the king in the corner. The only way to escape this is to bring the bishop in to block the pawn to free up the King- this takes a lot of time and by my calculations if white tries this black can queen a pawn.. I think people miss the point of Fishers actions. Why endanger yourself at all when it's a dead draw? Psychological warfare and International headlines that's why. Unsettling the opponent, playing the 'unplayable' and as I say, under the variation I suggest there are winning chances for black if white misplays it.
Dec-19-20  RookFile: Both Petrosian and Spassky wanted to show Fischer that they could make a draw against him whenever they wanted. Fischer wanted to show them it wasn't that simple. Hence 29....Bxh2?!
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