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Apr-16-21
 | | Dionysius1: Cheers <Viking707> I didn't know that. I never heard he'd been diagnosed, just persistent speculation as to what might have been wrong with him. It'd be great to know your sources, if you wouldn't mind. |
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| Apr-17-21 | | Caissanist: I find it strange that people still think Bobby was nuts. The main evidence for that was his belief in wacko conspiracy theories and, if we have learned anything in the last few years, it is that someone can believe in such things and otherwise be completely sane. In a sense, he was ahead of his time. |
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Apr-17-21
 | | beatgiant: <Caissanist>
That isn't the main evidence. The main evidence is the erratic and anti-social personal behavior, which sometimes became mildly violent (e.g. kicking a school principal). Anyway, this topic is not about this specific game, so I suggest discussing it on the Robert James Fischer page. |
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Apr-17-21
 | | perfidious: The following was originally posted by member <ChemMac>, who was quite well acquainted with Fischer: < <Monoceros> I had, as I posted some time ago, a long conversation with Fischer when he came unexpectedly into the Manhattan Chess Club. This was some months after winning the World Championship. In an hour and a half we talked about a lot, but what is relevant here is that he was (1) completely rational and courteous (2) quite clear about why he had, for the time being anyway, no desire to play. He said that he had achieved everything he had worked for during most of his life...and now, what? I think he was just :"chessed out".> |
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| Apr-18-21 | | Viking707: After playing Fischer, Mikhail Tal described him as "Cuckoo!" when Bobby was 15. Similar opinions of Fischer's mental abnormalities were mentioned by American chess masters, Robert Byrne, and Pal Benko. In addition, Reuben Fine, another American chess master and a psychiatrist, was asked by Bobby's mother to try and help her son, but after a few visits, Bobby revolted and treated Fine with anger and contempt thereafter. Valery Krylov, a specialist who worked with Anatoly Karpov, and saw the correspondence between him and Bobby, believed Fischer suffered from schizophrenia, and Asperger's Disorder.
There are also numerous stories from people who traveled with him about his bizarre and sometime dangerous behavior (he bit someone traveling in a car with him so hard, the scars were permanent).
Bobby's mother, and believed to be father, Paul Nemenyi, also had mental issues, and it is possible Bobby's problems were congenital.
Whatever the case, the preponderance of the evidence of Fischer's behavior reported by so many people who knew him, leads to the conclusion that he was seriously paranoid, and probably Asperger. |
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Apr-18-21
| | Dionysius1: <beatgiant>'s idea seems a good one. I'll copy the last few comments to the Robert James Fischer page and we can take it from there. Knowing my luck there won't be any more comments on this, but just so yous know :-) Dion |
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Apr-18-21
| | Dionysius1: That's them copied now. |
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| Jul-19-21 | | Albion 1959: The shortest game of this match. Qc2?? Brought about a swift conclusion ! It seems be universally accepted that Fischer stood better, even if Spassky had not blundered on move 27. I still do not see just exactly how Fischer would have won. There are no forcing lines and any further tactical passages of play. Other than Fischer is "winning". Surprised how Spassky handled this opening. He did not play his pet 4.Bg5 - The Leningrad line of the Nimzo. He had never lost a game with it, but could not bring himself to try it on Fischer! |
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Jun-15-22
 | | PrimusPilus: I had to run this through Stockfish 15 to figure out what Spassky and Fischer both knew after Qc2: Spassky would inevitably be overwhelmed by Fischer's pawn storm, resulting in a promotion. The simulation I ran has Fischer promoting a pawn by move 52, leaving a material (im)balance of Q, B, + 4 pawns for Black, vs. B + 2 pawns for White. |
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Jun-15-22
 | | MissScarlett: Stockfish 15 can commune with the living and the dead? Quite the NNUE feature. |
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Jun-15-22
| | PrimusPilus: Well, let's use Occam's Razor. Is it more likely that: A) Spassky resigned because Fischer behaved weirdly before the match; or B) Spassky, like Fischer, being an all-time chess genius, was able to perceive that the game was going to play out that way and therefore resigned. Stockfish 15 was simply there to help me figure things out; those guys obviously had figured it out on their own. |
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Jun-16-22
 | | keypusher: <primuspilus>
28.Qxa4 Qxe4 is a forced mate.
28.Qb1 Bxd1 29.Qxd1 Qxe4 30.Qd2 Nxg2 and it doesn't take a genius to resign. |
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Jun-16-22
| | PrimusPilus: Point well taken. |
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Jun-16-22
| | keypusher: Re what would have happened if Spassky had not blundered, I let SF 15 run a long time after 27.Qb1 h5 28.Bd2 g4 29.Bc2 Nh3+ 30.Kh1 (30. gh gh+ 31.Kf2 Qg2+ 32.Ke3 Bg4 33.Bd1 Qg1+ winning the piece back with an overwhelming position). SF eventually generated the following line, at about 50 ply: 30... Nf2+ 31. Kg1 Nh3+ 32. Kh1 Ng5 33. Be1 Nf7 34. Bh4 Qh6 35. Qe1 Ke8 36. Kg1 Bc8 37. Bf2 Kd8 38. Be3 Qf6 39. Bd3 Kc7 40. Bf2 Qe7 41. Bc2 Qg5 42. Bh4 Qh6 43. Bg3 Bd7 44. Bh4 Qf4 45. Bg3 Qf6 46. Bf2 Kb7 47. Bh4 Qf4 48. Be7 Kc7 49. Bh4 Qh6 50. Bf2 Nd6 51. Bg3 Nxc4 52. Bd3 h4 53. Bxh4 Qe3+ 54. Qxe3 Nxe3 55. Be7 Bxa4 56. Kf2 Nd1+ 57. Ke1 Nxc3 Black maneuvered his king to the queenside, his knight to d6, and his bishop to d7, putting maximum pressure on White's weaknesses. But there was a lot of tacking, suggesting that SF did not see a clear win. Eventually the engine liquidated to this position, which seems like it should be winning for Black: 
click for larger viewAt a still deeper search, 61 ply, Black eventually won the pawn on c4, but all other pieces and pawns remained on the board after about 30 moves, and it looks like it would be very difficult for Black to accomplish more. The eval was -1.12. In practice, I think it would have been very hard for Spassky to hold and very hard for Fischer to win! |
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| Jun-20-22 | | CapablancaDisciple: The times plus a few comments of this game from a website called crackteam.org: <<Game 5, July 20th, 1972 Spassky Fischer
White Black
1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 e6
3. Nc3 Bb4
4. Nf3 c5
5. e3 (0:02) Nc6 (0:07)
6. Bd3 (0:04) Bxc3+ (0:07)
7. bxc3 (0:04) d6 (0:07)
8. e4 (0:09) e5 (0:07)
9. d5 (0:17) Ne7 (0:09)
10. Nh4 (0:20) h6 (0:16)
11. f4 (0:40) Ng6 (0:27)
12. Nxg6 (0:55) fxg6 (0:28)
13. fxe5 (0:57) dxe5 (0:28)
14. Be3 (0:57) b6 (0:30)
15. 0-0 (1:05) 0-0 (0:30)
16. a4 (1:05) a5 (0:34)
17. Rb1 (1:09) Bd7 (0:37)
18. Rb2 (1:14) Rb8 (0:41)
19. Rbf2 (1:17) Qe7 (0:42)
20. Bc2 (1:43) g5 (0:51)
21. Bd2 (1:44) Qe8 (0:58)
22. Be1 (1:50) Qg6 (1:00)
23. Qd3 (1:51) Nh5 (1:13)
24. Rxf8+ (1:55) Rxf8 (1:14)
25. Rxf8+ (1:57) Kxf8 (1:14)
26. Bd1 (2:00) Nf4 (1:17)
27. Qc2 (2:09) Bxa4 (1:18)
0-1 (2:11)
Fischer was 9 or 10 minutes late again; it looks like he started working at move 10. Spassky took a lot of time at moves 11 and 12. Fischer’s last hesitation was at move 23. Spassky spent 9 minutes at move 27, blundering.
Fischer replied in about one minute, capturing the pawn with his Bishop and pressing his clock. He immediately grabbed his glass of juice, leaned back in his chair and gulped his juice down in about 4 seconds. He responded instantly with a handshake at the expected resignation, and left as quickly as he could.> > |
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| Oct-16-22 | | N.O.F. NAJDORF: <N.O.F. NAJDORF:
26 Bd1 is obviously wrong, when 26 g3 was necessary.>I'm not sure even 26 g3 would have saved white.
For example:
26. g3 Nf6 27. Bd2 Be8 28. h3 Ke7 29. Kg2 Bf7 30. Bb1 Bg8 31. Kf2 Bh7 32. Ke3 Qh5 33. Qf1 g4 34. h4 g5 35. Qh1 Ne8 36. Bd3 Nd6 37. Qb1 Nc8 38. hxg5 Qxg5+ 39. Ke2 Qh5 40. Qg1 Bg6 41. Kf2 Be8 42. Bc2 Nd6 |
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| Aug-15-23 | | N.O.F. NAJDORF: it has been suggested that he had a paranoid personality disorder but not schizophrenia. One does not need to be schizophrenic in order to be ranting about the Jews and claiming that chess tournaments and matches have been fixed. |
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| Nov-14-23 | | Messiah: 27.Qc2 is a terrible blunder. Poor Spassky. |
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Jul-01-24
 | | Chessmaletaja: Poor Boris!
That game makes an impression as if, with white pieces, a player with an ELO below 2000 was playing, a player who does not know the basic ideas and principles of the Nimzo-Indian Defence. Just as in the 3. game, here, in the 5. game too, Spassky got such a position with white pieces from the opening that he did not have any good plan. 27 ♕c2?? is a simple tactical blunder.
11 f4!? was a novelty and a trap: 11...exf4? 12 ♗xf4! g5 13 e5! However, everything is simple only seemingly.
Fischer's answer 11...♘g6! is not so obvious.
13 fxe5?! was a strategic mistake (like the move g3 in the 3. game). White released the tension too early. Imagine the endgame without queens. Black puts his knight on d6. White's passed pawn is blocked. At the same time, 2 weak pawns of White are under attack. White's bishops are dead in such a closed position. 16...a5! was also impressive. Black keeps the position closed. White's bishop pair does nothing. The pawn b6 can be attacked only using the b-line. And even if White wins that pawn in the endgame, White still does not have a new passed pawn. White's pawns a4, c3, c4 and e4 are all weak. I would never say I could achieve Fischer's position against Spassky in the OTB game. Fischer was sufficiently exact and refuted Spassky's attempts to do something active. Still, one would never expect the world champion to play with white pieces as weakly as Spassky did in the present game. |
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| Jul-01-24 | | RookFile: Actually, white was slightly better after 15... 0-0.
White has a protected passed pawn and black has doubled kingside pawns. That means that white can still get away with a lot and hold a draw. The mistakes did not come until later. |
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Jul-02-24
| | Chessmaletaja: White did not have a plan after 16...a5.
The manoeuvre Ra1-b1-b2-f2.
The retreat 21 ♗d2.
Putting both rooks on the f-file with 19 ♖bf2 only lead to the exchange of all rooks. After that, White cannot exert any pressure on the pawn b6.Black has several plans.
First, to move forward with the g- and h-pawns.
Second, put your knight on f4.
Third, put your knight on d6 to attack the pawns c4 and e4.
Forth, concentrate your pieces to attack the pawn e4. Perhaps none of these plans succeeds. But it is White who has to defend. White has no plans. It has only abstract entities like "space", "protected passed pawn", and "bishop pair". Black has a knight in the position with a fixed pawn structure. |
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| Jul-14-24 | | RookFile: Sure, he has a plan. It's called "win the endgame". Every trade gets him closer to that goal. Black has enough resources to hold the position, no more. Tip: A protected passed pawn is not an abstract idea. It really isn't. |
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Jul-17-24
| | Chessmaletaja: I am not interested in such discussions in which the opponent tries hard not to understand what I intend to say. |
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Jul-18-24
 | | Sally Simpson: 
click for larger view Spassky played 27.Qc2 after 9 minutes thought.
9 minutes is a long time considering White has a choice of only two moves. Qb1 or Qc2. What else was he thinking about. I reckon Spassky played 27 Qc2 thinking it would stop the tempting 27...h5 because 28.Qf2 has the g3 threat of winning the Knight. He spent most of those 9 minutes looking if Fischer can let the Knight go with 28...Qxe4 29.g3 g4 30.gxf4 exf4. So it appears after 28.Qf2 the Black King has to move then Bc2 and the White Queen is freed from guarding e4. I cannot see what else he was thinking about. Qb1 to keep the Black Queen tied to b6 or Qc2 with the Qf2 idea of pinning the Knight and threatening to win it. Going with the threat is very plausible and understandable. I can see me playing it. Meanwhile on the other side of the board Fischer had spent the 9 minutes making sure 27.Qc2 Bxa4! worked. He played it after one minute. Sources say the moment Spassky played 27.Qc2 he realised he had made a grave mistake. So it looks like one of those only seeing your threats type of blunders. Games for the title are riddled with unexpected at that level blunders. |
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| Sep-22-24 | | ColdSong: '' From Fischer with love " |
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