chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Salomon Flohr vs Dmitry Osipovich Rovner
URS-ch sf (1950), Tartu (Estonia), rd 8
Dutch Defense: Classical. Ilyin-Zhenevsky Variation General (A97)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 982 more games of Flohr
sac: 18.Nd1 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: To flip the board (so black is on the bottom) press the "I" key on your keyboard.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-17-05  erimiro1: <SamuelS> Right. moving directly 12. Ne5, gives white nothing. Maybe it's the time for trying to break black structure by 12. e4, although he has to calculate it very carefully, because the opening of the f file can be dangerous for him (sorry, I don't use Fritz or Chessmaster and I analyze the positions by the good old way, and don't have exact answers).Anyway, at least black has some counter chances.
Nov-17-05  mymt: <TTLump> I think 32.Ng6+ is needed for the mate because it stops Ke7-d8 & the blocking ...Re8 eg.32.Qh8+ Ke7 33.Qxg7+ Kd8 34.Rh8+ Re8 After 32.Ng6+ Kf7[...Ke8 33.Qg8#]33.Qxg7+ Ke8 34.Qg8#[or f8# or 34.Rh8#]
Nov-17-05  SamuelS: <mymt>, yes Ng6+ is needed, but also 32. Qh8+ Ke7 33. Ng6+ leads to checkmate (33...Kf7 34. Qxg7 Ke8 35. Rh8#) and that is what <TTLump> meant, I think.
Nov-17-05  zb2cr: Count me among the 32. Qh8+ crowd. I saw it led to mate in 4 at most.

Of course 32. Ng6+ is quicker by one move. 32. ... Ke8; 33. Qg8# is out, so 32. ... Kf7; 33. Qxg7+, Ke8; and either 34. Qf8# or 34. Rh8#.

Nov-17-05  YouRang: <Stevens: <chessgames> any feedback on my idea to include a "Play this position with Little Chess Partner" function with the daily puzzles? Is it possible?>

I've suggested this to chessgames.com also. The difficulty (they informed me) is coming up with the FEN string. The Java viewer doesn't provide it, so the chessgames server needs to generate it from the PGN code, which could put a heavy load on the servers if lots of people use that feature. (An alternative was to store FEN strings in the game database, but that creates space consumption problems.)

It would be a cool feature. You know, you can play any position you want with Little Chess Partner if you are willing to type in the FEN string yourself.

Nov-17-05  YouRang: I blew it. I went for the 29. Bxf6 gxf6 30. Rxh7+ Qxh7 31. Rh1 line which basically nets a pawn (if you think a queen is worth two rooks).

I looked at 29. Rxh7, but I failed to visualize the pin of the g pawn after Nxh7, and I failed to see the continuation after 29...Kg8. :(

Nov-17-05  snowie1: This one Flohred me at first; 29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+..Kg7 31.Rxh7+..Kxh7 32.Nf8 double +..Kg7 33.Rh1..Kxf8 34.Rh8+..Ke7 35.Qh7#!! Or, 28...Kg8 30.Qxh7+..Kf8 31.Ng6+..Ke8 32.Qg8# comment allez vous?
Nov-17-05  YouRang: <snowie1> Your line is <29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+ Kg7 31.Rxh7+> But what if black had played 30...Kg8?
Nov-17-05  lopium: 29.Bxf6 wins.
Nov-17-05  snowie1: <YouRang> If 29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+..Kg8 31.Rh6...now if 31...hxg6 32.Rxg6+..Kf8 33.Rh1!! This wins the Q at minimum, and both R's are still alive.
Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: This one seemed to say to us:the king can run,but he can't hide. I missed this one,although I didn't spend much time on it. About this time,the puzzles get to hard for my small mind.
Nov-17-05  YouRang: <snowie1> Okay. However, lets assume the game went, as you say: 29. Bxf6 gxf6 30. Ng6+ Kg8 31.Rh6

Now, instead of 31. hxg6, black can answer 31...Qg7. How do you respond to this?

I would guess 32. Rh1, but then 32...hxg6 33. Rxg6 Re2+!

If we follow this line, we exchange rooks (34. Qxe2 Qxg6), and it looks like black is up by a bishop.

Nov-17-05  YouRang: <snowie1> <if 32..hxg6 33.Rxg6 pinning the Q with White's Q at c2> I think you missed the point I made. Yes, 33. Rxg6 does pin the black queen, but 33...Re2+! forces white's to abandon the g6 rook: 34. Qxe2 Qxg6.
Nov-17-05  snowie1: <YouRang> I did miss that point. 31.Rh6 is a bad move in view of Black's Q to g7, so I need to look at that..it would lose the N and R's would be swapped...so I'll look for another move after 30...Kg8. Looks like 31.Nf4 with an eye to Ne6, cutting off the e-file and keeping Q off g7. In view of your help, that would seem to be the move.
Nov-17-05  LIFE Master AJ: I saw the whole combo in less than a minute. But to be honest, I did not see how deadly Ng6+ turned out to be.

A fine puzzle, once again, thanks to CG for the mental workout.

Nov-17-05  hayton3: I saw it in less than 30 seconds - so what.
Nov-17-05  ughaibu: 30 seconds for the puzzle gives you a DOUBLE LIFE Master rating. VAMPIRE Master? BIGAMIST Master? ESPIONAGE Master? MULTIPLE-PERSONALITY Master?
Nov-17-05  aw1988: <ughaibu> What are you drinking?
Nov-17-05  ughaibu: Squeezed lemon diluted with apple juice. You?
Nov-17-05  aw1988: Not tea, which is a travesty... one sec, let me make a cuppa.
Nov-17-05  Halldor: Got it, except I went for 32. Qh8+ which also leads to mate. When the white rooks are connected like this and the h-file half open, and even the queen is attacking h7 a rook sacrifice is in the air.
Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  khense: <TTLump> Reply to your question about why it's harder to find these forced wins in actual games: Finding a needle in a haystack is a hard job. But a much harder job is when someone asks you to determine if there is or isn't a needle in the haystack. You're always wondering if it's not there or you simply overlooked it.
Nov-17-05  LIFE Master AJ: <khense>
A very good point!

Often times, my <Class "C"> students can work out a mate ... if I set it up for them and IF they know for sure that it is there. Yet, often times, they miss these things in their games.

Just last year, I was going over a game with a student. He got angry (at me) because he missed a mate in five. He got peturbed because I seemd to think that he should not miss that sort of thing. [He complained of all the times that he thought he had a tactic, and spent endless amounts of time looking for something, only to discover that it was a "will-o-the-wisp," and there was nothing there.] Developing a "nose" for tactics, knowing what to analyze and when, all of these things are part of the "growing up" process in chess.

BTW, GM A. Kotov addresses these problems in his book, "Think Like A GrandMaster." (I highly recommend this book to the more experienced player.)

Nov-18-05  Stevens: <you rang> sorry, only just saw your response - thanks for the information!
Nov-20-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: The recent daily puzzle solution 29. Rxh7+! is a demolition of pawn structure combination, which actually began with the clearance move 28. Bxd7! Note how the followup 30. Rh1 uses the pin to set up a mating attack.

In the final position, White mates after 32...Kf7 (32...Ke8 33. Qg8#) 33. Qxg7+ Ke8 34. Rh8#.

It would seem 27...Re3? was a mistake, since 27...Bxh3+ 28. Rxh3 h6 29. Rd1 Kh8 would have given Black some practical survival chances.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
29.? (Thursday, November 17)
from POTD Dutch by takchess
Nice end game finish
from wals1.tactical exercises by wals
29.? (Thursday, November 17)
from Puzzle of the Day 2005 by Phony Benoni
29. Rxh7+!
from Demolition of Pawn Structure: Sac on h7 (h2) by Jaredfchess
29.? (November 17, 2005)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
29. Rxh7+!
from Demolition of Pawn Structure: Sac on h7 (h2) by patzer2


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC