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Aivars Gipslis vs Yuri S Razuvaev
URS 60 years rapid (1982), Moscow URS
French Defense: Winawer Variation (C15)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-01-12  Conrad93: I saw 26. Rxe7 and didn't bother with the rest.
Sep-01-12  solskytz: <Tiggler> this was definitely my intention, as the wit, spark and humor of the author shine brightly in the English work (as close as I got to the original) - such as 'the two theaters of war', the 'little drama that unfolds between the a-pawns' (if you remember) and other gems and pearls of truly exquisite writing, which educates and tickles at the same time...

This book has been greatly used in chess clubs in Israel for the last 12 years since I translated it. I got some great feedback for it, so I hope that I did something to make my mommy proud :-)

Sep-01-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <solskytz>: <I hope that I did something to make my mommy proud>

The steriotypical ambition of every good Jewish boy. But if you are not a doctor or a lawyer ....

Sep-01-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: 2020, the first woman nominated for the Presidency, proud of her Jewish heritage. As she walks up to the microphone to officially accept the nomination, her mother sits in the audience, proud of her offspring. Mom turns to an attractive young lady sitting next to her and says "See that woman up there? Her brother is a doctor."
Sep-01-12  pokerplayer: < Dr. J: So far there has been a lot of trouble disposing of 26 Rxe7 Rxe7 27 hxg5 Rg6. Several commenters have continued 28 Qh8+ Rg8 29 Qh6+ Rg7 30 g6!, but so far only <cyclon> spotted the defense 30...Kg8!. But <cyclon's> continuation 31 Rd8? fails against Re1+.>

I don't see why Re1+ is a defense. After 31 ... Re1+, 32. Kd2 Qg1 (Rd1 32. Kd1 Qg1 33. Ke2 also is fine for White) 33. Re8+ Re8 34. gf+ Rf7 35. Qg6+ Kh8 36. Qh5+ Rh7 37. Qe8+ Kg7 38. Qf7+ Kh6 39. Qf6+ Kh5 40. g4+ White gets the 2nd rook and wins easily.

Sep-01-12  Shams: <I see by the number of comments here that my attitude is shared by many. I also e-mailed chessgames.com a rough draft of this post asking for permission to post it as it is a direct comment on another member's behavior and not on chess. I received permission to post my comments.>

No question that many people agree with you, but you shouldn't infer that the admins are among them from the fact that they green-lighted your post. They are simply being consistent, in allowing users to fairly criticize each other when squabbles arise. For obvious reasons they prefer to remain agnostic in these disputes, and they're very good at it.

Sometimes a little too good at it, if you ask me. =)

Sep-01-12  cunctatorg: Well, here is a "funny" subvariation:
27. ... Rg6 28. Qh8 Rg8 29. Qh6 Rg7 30. Qd6? (with a minimal difference from the eventual actual position) Rg6; thus 30. g6!? and the fact is that 27. ... Rh7 deserves a question mark, the eventual analysis of 30. g6 aside.
Sep-01-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <Shams> On the Olympiad thread recently, contention arose between partisan supporters of the Philippines team and various others, some of whom resorted to ethnic slurs. That was over the line. But the situation was best addressed by a comedian who compared the filipino fans to those who, in the best traditions of sports blogs, believed that their team is like "Da Bears" in reference to the Chicago Bears, who of course could do no wrong and would always trounce any opponent.

In case the relevance of my comment escapes anyone, the best way to defuse such situations is nearly always to resort to humor or, in extreme cases, ridicule. This will usually, to use <Once>'s story on this page (without his endorsement), prick most overinflated ballooons.

Sep-02-12  LoveThatJoker: <solskytz> I'm not trolling. Whatever I had to address to you, I already did.

<sfm> Alright...I appreciate what you wrote and how you wrote it. Thanks for the support on my Chess posts.

<DavidD> To be honest, I appreciate the hours you have logged in mastering the art of writing. The fact that you have a degree, or are published, or are a professional, are but a corroboration of the fact that you have spent a lot of time honing your craft. For this, I applaud you truly.

I think you're right in that there is something wrong in the way I have expressed something to <Once>. I hope you read my apology earlier; and I hope that takes care of it for you.

This said, I cannot mince words about a fellow kibitzer who is breaking a certain etiquette - the etiquette of stating "According to this engine,...".

You being a writer, you understand the importance of citing one's sources at all times that one's ideas are not one's own. If someone says to me, "This fellow kibitzer is master-level strength" during the course of a discussion/debate, it is my choice whether or not to say "Yes", "No" or nothing at all. In this instance I chose to say "No" and explain why this is the case.

If this is ineffective communication to you, then so be it. To me, it is of the truth. And being for/of the truth is more genuinely appreciated than being for/of falsehood.

Speaking of falsehoods, here are a couple that you mentioned that I'm happy to address,

1) <the number of your posts per game (far more than anyone else)> I recognized that on this daily puzzle here in question I made quite a few posts, yes. And there are occasions when I will also make quite a few posts, but by and large I'm conscientious of not making too many posts on the daily puzzle. And I know, the truth on this moreso than you do.

2) <replying to anyone who comments on any of your posts (mostly a waste of space)> I actually like the fact that I respect my fellow kibitzers enough to address them individually. If I was addressing a fellow kibitzer, I would certainly enjoy receiving a reply from them. It's just courtesy. If you find that to be a waste of space, then that's you.

3) <habitually posting your solving score for the week (who else does this--and to the tenth of a decimal??)> Just me, and I can live with that.

4) <rushing to Stockfish for some kind of "silicon truth"> As I am an improving Chess player, there are many things that I come across in Chess that I need assistance with so as to understand, and hence improve my Chess. That's why in many instances I do "rush to Stockfish", but at least any and every time that I post something from its analysis, I credit it.

5) <and an almost obsessive compulsion to defend your ideas as the best.> This is just a falsehood. I have demonstrated that if I commit a mistake, that I can accept that mistake and commend the people who have corrected me on it. Conversely, if I am in the right, then I will defend that which is the truth.

I try steer clear of subjective opinions. It doesn't happen 100% of the time, but by and large, I make a conscientious effort to only post that which is objectively true.

<You are not the owner nor moderator of this webpage. It is not your duty to tell others what their posts should or should not look like. Anyone can post virtually anything anytime they like. You don't set the criteria.>

To tell a fellow kibitzer to "cite his sources" on each and every post he uses an engine, lest people be erroneously led to conclude that his ideas are his own when they are not, is simply upholding a higher standard of respect and courtesy to both the fellow kibitzer and the game.

<Fortunately, members like Once are far more lucid and memorable than you. They are the reason to read the kibitzes, not your posts. If you want to improve your communication skills, stick to objective comments about the chess position and chess analysis. Don't mention another member by name. Think about these comments. Don't reply defending yourself nor attacking me. One time, accept the feedback.>

Thanks for telling me what to do, but this is my reply to you.

I want you to know that I accept both the positive and the negative in your post.

Sincerely,

LTJ

Sep-02-12  solskytz: Some people here are really great at ridicule. A lot to learn...
Sep-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <DavidD: It is not your duty to tell others what their posts should or should not look like. Anyone can post virtually anything anytime they like. You don't set the criteria........Don't mention another member by name. Think about these comments. Don't reply defending yourself nor attacking me. One time, accept the feedback.>

I hate to continue the dustup, but LTJ did after all apologize, and you are in fact doing exactly what you said LTJ shouldn't do.

Sep-02-12  solskytz: <OCF> I have the guy on ignore. Please update me: Did he apologize for calling Once a weak player? If he did I'll return him 'to good standing' and the sun will shine again :-)
Sep-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Let it go, guys, let it go. LTJ did offer an apology of sorts, even if he continued to criticise me after the apology.

It's not worth fighting over.

Sep-02-12  gofer: <David 2009>... as requested...

1 Rxe7 Rxe7
2 gxh4 Rd7
3 Qb4+! Rhd6
4 Rxd6 a5
5 Qd4 Rxd6
6 Rxd6+ Kg8
7 Qe7 Kg7
8 Qxe8 Kg6
9 Qe5! Qxb1+
10 Kxb1 Kh7
11 Bxf7 b5
12 Qf6 h4
13 Qh6#

Sep-02-12  rilkefan: <gofer>, isn't 3.Qc5+ a bit better? Then the equivalent of ...a5, ...b6, loses (slightly more quickly) to Rxb6+.
Sep-02-12  gofer: <<rilkefan>>: <<gofer>, isn't 3.Qc5+ a bit better? Then the equivalent of ...a5, ...b6, loses (slightly more quickly) to Rxb6+. >

Well it might be, what does an engine say!? I don't have anything to tell me which is better...

Crafty EGT still puts up a fight andt it doesn't trade rooks quite as simply and 3 Qc5+ does allow black access to checking the white king on e1, so I can't be definite either way!

Sep-02-12  Abdel Irada: <Steak sauce counterattack?>

The most notable feature of the puzzle position is the location of Black's queen on <a1>. What's she doing in there? Posing for a steak sauce commercial? She certainly isn't playing a role in the game, and this gives White a free hand to attack as he pleases.

It is also notable that Black's best piece is his bishop on e7, which offers hope for a draw if White is careless, by threatening to take the long diagonal from f6 and escort out the currently paralyzed queen.

This leads to <26. ♖xe7!>, eliminating all counterplay. From this moment, the white queen, rampaging unabated, will bully the ill-coordinated black rooks into passivity.

Black can't recapture with the king. Without deep analysis of potentially more incisive lines, it's clear that after 26. ...♔xe7?; 27. ♕d8 picks up the rook on c7, leaving White a full piece ahead — while the black queen remains on <a1>, recording a commercial.

The strongest continuation, then:

26. ...♖xe7
27. hxg5

White already has two pawns for the exchange, and Black must move his rook. (Parenthetically, 27. ...♖d7? fails to 28. ♕c5, winning a rook.) There are two choices, but in either case the rook must remain where it can prevent mate with ♕h8:

(1) 27. ...♖h7
28. ♕d6

Here we see how helpless the rooks are. White will bring his rook to e1 and win the pinned rook on e7, and Black can't connect his rooks by pushing his f-pawn because after gxf6, the pawn will also attack the pinned rook.

(2) 27. ...♖g6
28. ♕h8, ♖g8
29. ♕h6, ♖g7
29. f4!

Here again we see Black's position marinated by the queen on <a1>. He can writhe and twitch, but useful moves he has none.

29. ...♖d7!
30. ♖e1!, ♖d8

Otherwise White will win a piece with ♖xe8.

31. f5!, ♔g8

Abject, but there is nothing better. Black hopes to meet f6 with ...♖h7.

32. g6!, ♖c8

Black has no productive moves thanks to the need to defend multiple weak points. The denouement is mere mopping up.

33. f6, ♖xg6
34. ♕xg6 .

Here we see that all the white pieces have full employment, including the hitherto-silent bishop on b3: Black must move the king to f8 or h8, and then comes 35. ♕g7#.

Now, the real mystery: How did Black's queen end up as a marinade? I suspect that she "infiltrated" on a2, was ejected with ♗c4, checked on a1, and was sealed in by the interposition ♘b1 — and now she can't "out-filtrate."

Sep-02-12  Abdel Irada: Regarding the dispute between <Once> and <LTJ>:

Without delving into the respective merits and demerits of the particular posts, it seems to me that we are engaged here in parallel efforts, and there is nothing to be gained by unnecessarily disrespecting other players' contributions. If someone posts an inferior line, there is nothing wrong with showing its defects, but there is conversely no cause to calumniate the player; it is possible to offer correction or a differing line of thought without spitting corrosive contempt in the face of a fellow kibitzer.

And if you do feel the need to engage in a flame war, there is always the Kenneth Rogoff page. ;-)

Sep-02-12  Abdel Irada: Blecch! Razuvaev gave up without a fight. While it still loses, 27. ...♖g6 at least gives White a bit more calculating to do.

I also note that I was wrong about the order of moves that made steak sauce of Black's queen. Talk about "unforced errors": The text, if anything, is even more wretched than my retrograde analysis would have suggested.

Sep-03-12  Djoker: <LTJ> I guess 27...Rg6 isn't good. Possible continuation...
28. Qh8+ Rg8
29. Qh6+ Rg7
30. g6...I am not sure what Black's best move at this point is. Pawn can't be captured in view of mate threat.
a. Anything except Kg8 31> Qh8+ Rg8 32>g7#
b. 30....Kg8 31>gxf7+ (..Kf8 32>Qh8+ Rg8 33>Qxg8#)(...Bxf7 32> Rd8+ Re8 33>Rxe8#) (...Rexf7 32>Rd8 with decisive advantage) ...Rgxf7 32>Qxh5..opening the file for rook onslaught...with the poor rook pinned and the queen in distress black is out of options.
Sep-03-12  LoveThatJoker: <Djoker> According to Stockfish, with the exception of the 'a' line, everything you stated is right on!

27...Rg6 28. Qh8+ Rg8 29. Qh6+ Rg7 30. g6 Kg8

Analysis Diagram - Position after 30...Kg8


click for larger view

A) 31. Qxh5 Bd7 32. gxf7+ Rgxf7 33. Rh1 Re1+ 34. Rxe1 Qxb2+ 35. Kxb2 Kg7 36. Qxf7+ Kh6 37. Rh1+ Bh3 38. f4 a5 39. Rxh3#

B) 31. gxf7+ Rexf7 [31...Bxf7 32. Rd8+ Re8 33. Rxe8#; 31...Rgxf7 32. Rd6 (32. Qxh5 Re2 33. Qg6+ Kf8 34. Qh6+ Kg8 35. Rh1 Qxb1+ 36. Kxb1 Re1+ 37. Rxe1 Bd7 38. Qg6+ Kh8 39. Bxf7 a5 40. Qh6#) 32...Re1+ 33. Kd2 Re6 34. Rxe6 Rxf2+ 35. Re2+ Bf7 36. Rxf2 Qa2 37. Rxf7 Qxb3 38. Rf8#] 32. Rd8 Qxb2+ 33. Kxb2 Kf8 34. Qh8+ Ke7 35. Qxe8+ Kf6 36. Qe6+ Kg5 37. Rd5+ Kf4 38. Qd6+ Kg4 39. Qg3#

LTJ

Sep-03-12  Dr. J: I think by 32...Qg1 you actually mean 32...Qxb1. But, yes, I think you are right.

Incidentally, 32...Qxb2 is somewhat better, but the same continuation leaves White ahead with ♗♘♙♙ for ♖.

Sep-03-12  rilkefan: <<gofer>: <<rilkefan>>: <<gofer>, isn't 3.Qc5+ a bit better? Then the equivalent of ...a5, ...b6, loses (slightly more quickly) to Rxb6+. >

Well it might be, what does an engine say!?>

I'm sure it'll say +large number steadily increasing in either case, but my intended point was that probably white doesn't need to calculate the two lines (though Rxb6+ does look superior to me) because one always picks the one where the opponent has a chance to go wrong, or conversely where one has an extra choice.

Sep-11-12  The Last Straw: Her majesty's gone mad!!!
Sep-20-12  Conrad93: DavidD is an expert composing the greater chain of "experts" online.
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