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Isidor Gunsberg vs Hermann von Gottschall
Frankfurt (1887), Frankfurt am Main GER, rd 7, Jul-22
Sicilian Defense: Closed Variation. Traditional (B25)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-14-05  Knight13: Good sacrifices. Move 20. f5! is like an opening trap.
Jun-28-08  Chess Guevara: hermann at leats choose how to die
24...gxh5 25.Qg5+ Kh7 26.Qxh5+ Kg8 27.Qg5+ Kh7 28.Rf4

1-0

Jun-28-08  Chess Guevara: Bishop while go to d4 says : your majesty the way is clear ,is all yours!
Sep-03-08  Sem: What about 23. Qh6?
Sep-03-08  sneaky pete: 23... Bxh3 maybe?
Oct-18-08  Sem: Aaahrg... Sneaky pete, I must learn to suggest moves from the correct position.
Oct-18-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: As far as I can see, White actually wins after 23.Qh6 (if 23...Bxh3 24.Rf4 and how is Black going to stop 25.Rh4 and 26.Qxh7?)
Oct-18-08  artyom2008: YO WASSUP
Nov-08-08  thebribri8: <artyom2008> Nothing much, you?
Jan-04-09  WhiteRook48: took me a while to see ...Kxh8 Qh6+ Kg8 Qg7#
Jan-08-09  WhiteRook48: what a sacrifice! Knight sac. And then a checkmate after a while...
Apr-18-10  BobCrisp: Can Black really be lost after <20.f5!>? Hard to believe. Fritz 11 thinks the narrow line to safety is 20.f5 exd5 21.f6 Bxf6 22.Rxf6 Bd7 23.Rh4 Rfe8 24.Rxd6 Qc7 25.Bc5 h5 26.Nf4 Ne5 27.Rxd5 Qd8 28.Bf2 Qg5 and Black looks OK.
May-10-13  Moonwalker: 22.Bd4 and the bishop is immune due to 23.Qh6 and mate on h7. 22...Bd7 is the only defence followed by 23.Rh4. That's about all I could see without a board.

Neat game.. 20.f5 is a great move!

May-10-13  Bartimaeus: An interesting middlegame position. Black is quite cramped. White has a superior position. Its a matter of converting this superiority into a win. Looking at the position, potential mate threats on g7 / h7 seem feasible on the horizon. Another factor that becomes evident is that if the B-Q battery were interchanged, i.e. Q in front instead of bishop, the attack would become far more potent and simpler. These two concepts lead to the idea that the Bishop has to be got out of the way to make way for the Queen. Developing further on this theme we have :

22. Bd4! (freeing the line for the Queen, protecting the f6 pawn and freeing up the f-rook to get into the attack. Killing 3 birds with one stone) Bd7 (threat is Qh6 and Qh7#; as the Queen can't be attacked, best to attack the rook) 23. Rh4 h5 24. Rxh5 gxh5 25. Qg5+ Kh7 (not Bg7 Qxg7#) 26. Qxh5+ Kg8 27. Qg5+ Kh7 28. Rf4 and mate next on Rh4.

Looking at the game line, didn't spot Bg4 but anyways Rxh8+ ends that defense even sooner.

May-10-13  davedude9: Hm... The best I found was 20. Bh6, planning to follow that with Bxf8 and Qh6+. If Black replies 20...Bd7 he might wriggle out of mate, but not before White devours the whole king's side.
May-10-13  M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to play 22.?
White is a Bishop down.

22.Bc5
With the idea of clearing the path for the Queen
<if...dxc5 23.Qh6 and mate next move.>

22...........h5
23.Bxd6 Bd7
24.Rxh5 gxh5
25.Qg5+ Kh7
26.Qxh5+ Kg8
27.Bxf8 Rxf8
<if 27...Kxf8 28.Qxh8#>

28.Rf3 Qb6+
29.Kh1 Qc7
30.Rg3+ Qxg3
31.Nxg3 Bxf6
32.exd5
Black has to continue a Queenless game
1-0
Let's see the game continuation.
===
I like my move of 22.Bc5 way more than the games play of 22.Bd4 which looks to attain nothing really. Like also to know your opinions.

May-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White is one bishop down.

If the bishop disappeared then White would deliver a quick mate with 22.Qh6 and Qxh7#. This suggests 22.Bh6, attacking the rook, and 22.Bd4, protecting the pawn on f6.

In the case of 22.Bh6:

A) 22... Bd7 23.Rh4

A.1) 23... Bf5 24.exf5 Bxf6 25.Bxf8 Rxf8 26.fxg6 fxg6 27.Qxd5+ + - [R vs B].

A.2) 23... Rfd8 24.Bg7 Bxg7 (24... h5 25.Qh6; 24... Ne5 25.Rxh7 Bxg7 26.Rxg7+ Kf8 27.Qh6) 25.fxg7 f6 (25... Kxg7 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Qxf7#) 26.Qh6 Kf7 27.Qxh7 Rg8 28.Rh6 Ne5 29.Nf4 looks complex.

B) 22... Ne5 23.Bxf8 Ng4 24.Be7 Qb6 25.Qd4 + - [R vs B].

In the case of 22.Bd4:

A) 22... Nxd4 23.Qh6 and mate soon.

B) 22... Bd7 23.Rh4

B.1) 23... Rfd8 24.Qh6 and mate soon.

B.2) 23... Bg4 24.Qh6 Bh5 25.Rxh5 gxh5 26.Qg5+ Bg7 27.Qxg7#.

B.3) 23... h5 24.Rxh5 gxh5 (24... Rfd8 25.Rxh8+ Kxh8 26.Qh6+ Kg8 27.Qg7#) 25.Qg5+ Kh7 26.Qxh5+ Kg8 27.Qg5+ Kh7 28.Rf4 + -.

C) 22... h5 23.Rxh5 is similar to B.3.

The second move, 22.Bd4, looks much stronger.

May-10-13  Bartimaeus: <M.Hassan> I think with 22. Bc5 white will win but the path to victory looks more difficult.

Consider 22. Bc5 Bd7 23. Rh4 Bxf6 24. Rxf6 Kg7 25. Bxd6 Rh8 26. Qh6+ Kg8 and now white will need to bring more pieces to conclude the attack successfully and black can use the time to build some defense though it is a very hard task.

Bd7 is a better response than an immediate h5 and its better to preserve the pawn on f6 as it facilitates a mating attack. imo, Bd4 seems faster and better.

May-10-13  Bartimaeus: Scratch the previous line. After Bxf6, White can play Qh6 instead of Rxf6. White should win with this line too. Black doesn't have enough time to take the f6 pawn and will lose if he tries to take it. For e.g.

22. Bc5 Bd7 23. Rh4 h5 24. Rxh5 Bxf6 25. Qh6 Rfe8 26. Qh7+ Kf8 27. Rxf6 and wins

So it seems the protection of f6-pawn isn't as important as thought. Its enough to make way for the Queen.

May-10-13  SilverLining: Happened to leave crafty pondering this one for a while. It's recommendation for black after Bd4? Die hard queen sac!

22. ...not Bd7 but Qd7!
23. still Rh4 but now, Qg4!

Somebody loves her king!

Play continues with rook takes Q, now pawn to h5, Rook back to h4 threatening the same sacrifice, black now with a chance to prepare.

May-10-13  gofer: I have a huge sense of "Deja Vu". I have seen almost this position in the last week of POTDs, so it should be easy. In the "wish-world" of chess. I would wish not to have Be3 on the board then 22 Qh6 wins immediately, but unfortunately Be3 is in the way, so first I should move it and moving it onto the a1-h8 diagonal to support Pf6 seems logical, but what is black's best reply?

<22 Bd4 ...>

22 ... Bxf6 23 Bxf6 ( continuing with one of the other variations below, but a move later and without Bh8)

22 ... Nxd4 23 Qh6 Nxe2+ 24 Kh8 any 25 Qxh7#

22 ... Bd7 23 Rh4 h5 24 Rxh5 Bg4 25 Rxh8+ Kxh8 26 Qh6+ Kg8 27 Qg7#

22 ... h5 23 Rxh5 gxh5 24 Qg4+ Kh7 25 Qxh5+ Kg8 26 Qg4+ Kh7 27 Rf4 mating

~~~

I suppose a silicon defenses might be 22 ... Bg7 and or 22 ... Qd7, but the seem pretty terminal options for black...

Okay, so today's I got, but yesterday's I didn't...

May-10-13  SilverLining: RE: Qg4

That is a problem with computers today- when the optimal defense is to hand over your queen, maybe the computer should look instead for the long defense. How much calculation is required to win in this position, how much in that one?

May-10-13  mistreaver: Friday.White to play.Difficult.22?
At first sight i wanted to play simply.
22 Bd4
but then i didn't know what to do after
22... h5
Therefore:
22 Bh6 Ne5
23 Bg7 h5
24 Qh6
but
22 Bh6 Bxf6
23 Rxf6 Qe7
24 Rf1 Bd7
25 Rxf8 h5 (else Qh6)
and i guess white wins again.
Time to check and see what i missed.
---
Of course, after 22 Bh6 Bd3 white's attack fails. I completely missed Rxh5 idea.
May-10-13  Al2009: Why 22. Bd4? (allowing the changes 22...Nxd4 etc.)

It was better 22.Bc5!, and then nothing can stop 23. Qh6 (22...Bg7 23. fxg7 etc. 22...h5 23. Rxh5 and Qg5+ 22...dxc5 23. Qh6)

May-10-13  Al2009: Ah, now I see that M. Hassan shared my opinion, it was better 22. Bc5!

Thanks M. Hassan, I saw yr post just now...

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