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Jose Raul Capablanca vs George Alan Thomas
Hastings (1919), Hastings ENG, rd 4, Aug-14
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense. Hedgehog Variation (C66)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-14-02  pferd: pferd's game of the day. Study the final position closely. One of Sir G.A.'s more famous losses.
Oct-14-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Here's what I see in the final position...

Obviously, Black is up that famous creek without a paddle. He's going to get mated on the back rank one way or another.

If it was me playing the Black pieces, I would have tried one last "trick" by playing 29...Rc1+(!) hoping for the blundersome 30.Rxc1? Rxb8 where Black looks fine.

However on 30. Kf2! I would surely resign, because after ...Rxc1 31. Rxe8 and Black is busted again.

Oct-14-02  bishop: Sneaky, Thomas resigned unnecessarily! Incredibly he has a saving move in the final position. I'll let you try to figure it out.
Oct-14-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Oh!! I see it!! Wow!
Oct-14-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Well let me tell you what I see and you can tell me if I'm on target.

Black can hold the game with 29...Rxa2! and now all of these lines should suit Black fine:

30. Rxe8 Rxa8 31. Rxf8 Rxf8

30. Qxa2 Rxb8 31. Rxb8 Qxb8 32. Qf7

But 30. Qb7 is a little harder since Rxb8 looks like suicide. Here I think 30...Ra1! and Black maintains the balance.

Oct-14-02  drukenknight: thats' pretty clever, Sneaky I think is right on target. Do you get it now, Sneaky? WHen ahead try to exchange. THomas is ahead in material. That means you start looking for exchanges.
Oct-14-02  drukenknight: Resurrecting resigned positions is getting to be a habit for the players around here. Wait till the pawntiff comes back to the board, I will have another funny one to show him. Pawntiff when you coming back, how about 1 am eastern std time? or whatver time we are on is it still daylight saving?
Oct-14-02  drukenknight: after 30. Rxe8 Rxa8 31. Rxf8 Rxf8 it is easy victory for black: 32 Rc1 Rc4 33 Rd1 Rd8 and its all over.

Black is ahead in material and will have the move. That is won game. Each time the pawn move closer to 8th rank, black gains in material, by a small fraction but gaining nonetheless.

If you are ahead in material and your material keeps growing...you have a won game. Its simple game reallly it is.

Oct-15-02  drukenknight: TYPO CORRECTION ON WINNNING LINE:

30. Rxe8 Rxa8 31. Rxf8 Rxf8 it is easy victory for black: 32 Rc1 Rc8 (not c4 duh) 33 Rd1 Rd8 and its all over.

Oct-15-02  pferd: Very good. Now back it up a move, following 28...Re8 Can you find a win for White? (Obviously not 29.Qa8?)
Oct-15-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: Yes, I can. There seems to be even two winning moves in that position:

1) 29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 attacking rook and queen; black cannot 30...Qxa4 for 31.Rb8+

or 2) 29.Qb5 c6 30.Rxe8 Qxe8 31.Qb8 +-; 29...Rc1+ 30.Kf2 Rc2+ 31.Ke1 Rc1+ (31...Rxb8 32.Qxb8 Kg8 33.Qb3+ +-; 31...Rxe4+ 32.Kd1 +-) 32.Kd2 +-; 29...Rxb8 30.Qxb8 +-; 29...Rc8(d8) 30.Rxc8(d8) Qxc8(d8) 31.Qb8 +-

Oct-15-02  pferd: This game is referenced in "The Complete Book of Chess" by Horowitz and Rothenberg, 1963.
Oct-15-02  Woodpusher: that looks pretty convincing, honza. I prefer the first line because its quick and forcing.
Oct-16-02  drukenknight: on first part of HOnza's:

29. Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 c6 why doesnt this hold?

Second part:

29.Qb5 c6 30.Rxe8 Qxe8 31.Qb8 +-;

followed by 31...Qg8 what have you proved exactly? what happens when black gives check on c1?

I am sorry to be pain in the neck. It really annoys me when analysts say "this is winning". If you have mating line. That is fine.

If you show a line where one side material continues to increase and nothing else happens. Fine I agree that is winning.

If you show a line where one side continues to push passed pawn down field and nothing else happens. FIne I agree that is winning.

But dont say +/= or whatever. That is not proof.

Again, sorry, you are good player. I dont mean this personally only as form of logic.

Oct-16-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: 1) 29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 c6 31.Qxc2 and black is down with rook.

2) 29.Qb5 c6 30.Rxe8 Qxe8 31.Qb8 Qg8 32.Qxg8+ Kxg8 33.Rb8 mate.

3) 29.Qb5 c6 30.Rxe8 Qxe8 31.Qb8 Rc1+ 32.Kf2 (There are similar lines with check on c1 mentioned above, white can play it all by the same way...) 32...Rc2+ 33.Ke1 Rc1+ (or 33...Kg8 34.Qb3+ and 35.Qxc2 or 33...Qg8 34.Qxg8+ and 35.Rb8 mate) 34.Kd2 etc.

Oct-16-02  drukenknight: HOnza, its really not so simple:

29. Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4

30...Rc1+!

interesting no?

play for the win: 31 Kf2 Rc6

or draw?

Oct-16-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: I'm afraid it is very simple for white:

29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 Rc1+ 31.Kf2 Rc6 32.Qxc6.

Black queen cannot move from the 8th line for mate after Rb8+.

Oct-16-02  drukenknight: chess is usually not simple to win; certainly not in this situation:

29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 Rc1+ 31.Kf2 Qxg6

Oct-16-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: It is very simple even if black plays 29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 Rxg2+ 31.Kxg2 Qxg6+ 32.Kh1. Black is down with rook and white a-pawn will be advancing soon.
Oct-16-02  drukenknight: 30....Rxg2+ appears to be mistake isn't Rc1+ the better move?
Oct-17-02
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: The line 29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 Rc1+ 31.Kf2 Qxg6 32.Rxc1 is worse for black as white saved his g-pawn. It means not only material advantage but also it offers very good shelter for white king against checks of black queen.
Oct-17-02  drukenknight: but is there any better line for black?
Oct-19-02  Danilomagalhaes: I don´t understand! Why Qa4? If Rxe8, Qxe8, Qxe8++, isn´t it?
Oct-19-02  Danilomagalhaes: If 29... Rxb8, Qxb8, Qxb8, Rxb8++, isn´t it?
Oct-19-02  pferd: Dan: The move Qa4 comes in the sequence after the game position 28...Re8 Instead of the losing 29.Qa8 (which won because Thomas resigned in a winning position) White could have played 29.Rxe8 Qxe8 30.Qa4 forking the Q and R. White's Queen is safe because if 30...Qxa4, 31.Rb8+ forces mate.
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