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Israel Albert Horowitz vs NN
Los Angeles (1940), Los Angeles, CA USA
Vienna Game: Stanley Variation. Meitner-Mieses Gambit (C23)  ·  1-0



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Given 64 times; par: 19 [what's this?]

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sac: 11.Qxg7+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-02-19  Olsonist: I saw Ne7 although Rg6 is nice too.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: After Whites ninth move he is already up more than a rook. What black plays later is immaterial.
Sep-02-19  Kangaroo: <13. Ne7+ Nxe7 14. Bxf7#> is an alternative solution after 12th move of Black
Premium Chessgames Member
  jffun1958: 2-Mate: 13.Ne7+ Nxe7 14.Bxf7#
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: I saw the 13 Rg6+ line.

Apparently, black has to play 7..h5 if he wants to play on in this variation.

Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: I went with #2, but didn't see #1. Do I get only half credit?
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White has a knight for the queen.

The knight on d5 blocks Bxf7#. Therefore, 13.Ne7+ Nxe7 14.Bxf7#.

Also, the rook on f6 doesn't allow Nf6#. Therefore, 13.Rg6+ fxg6 (13... hxg6 14.Nf6#) 14.Ne7(f6)#.

Sep-02-19  et1: Ne7 is faster
Sep-02-19  saturn2: 13. Rg6+ f(h)xg6 14. Nf6 is mate
Sep-02-19  malt: Went for the 13.Ne7+ line.
Sep-02-19  MrCarciofo: four winning combinations:

1) Ne7+, NxN; Bxf7#
2) Rg6+, hxR; Nf6#
3) Rg6+, fxR; Nf6#
4) Rg6+, fxR; Ne7#

Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Ne7+ for me.
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajk68: Ne7+ for me too. It's always a lot easier to be sure of a mate where all the moves are forced and there are no options.
Sep-02-19  TheaN: <et1: Ne7 is faster>

How's a mate in two faster than a mate in two?

As to the question whether Ne7 is better, which was my pick as I simply saw that sequential mate in two, is interesting. Factually no, as both are mate in two. Practically however, White would have to envision after either pawn takes g6, Nf6 is still mate, so in theory it involves more calculation.

As for improvements, early posts discuss Black's defensive options. Apparently, 4.Qg4?! is tricky but largely premature. Black can simply ignore the threat can counter with 4....d6!= to ⩲, an option Black has in the open games more often: after the consistent 5.Qxg7 Qf6! 6.Qxf6 (Qg3 Nb4= gives Black initiative) Nxf6= Black has a resourceful game with better development and a strong half open g-file. In effect, White will have to return the g-pawn at some point or face a gambitesque defensive game.

Sep-02-19  zb2cr: I saw 13. Ne7+, Nxe7; 14. Bxf7#. Obviously an alternative mate in two to the game line.

As <MrCarciofo> points out, this puzzle honors the U.S. holiday of Labor Day by not making people work too hard--any of 4 lines result in mate in 2!

Sep-02-19  saturn2: Computers would prefer Ne7 since it sacrifices a knight and not a rook, no?
Sep-02-19  FrogC: I play this line as White. 4.Qg4 Qf6? is a trap I've won quite a few games with. But I've never found the sort of sacs Horowitz comes up with in this game.
Sep-02-19  lost in space: My first instinct was 13 Rxf7 and somehow mate soon. But this somehow is not that easy and 13. Rxf7 is not that forcing.

So back to start.
Next I saw 13. Ne7+ Nxe7 14. Bxf7# and finally I got the most elegant and esthetic 13. Rg6+ fxg6 14. Nf6# There are less esthetic side solutions like hyg6 and also Ne7#....

I love Mondays!

Premium Chessgames Member
  Breunor: From the silicon monster:

After 3 Bc5, black is fine:

1) +0.09 (29 ply) 4.d3 Nf6 5.a3 O-O 6.Nf3 a6 7.O-O d6 8.Bg5 h6 9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.Nd5 Qd8 11.c3 Ne7 12.Ne3 b5 13.Bb3 Bb7 14.a4 Bb6 15.h3 Qd7 16.Nd5 Nxd5 17.Bxd5 c6 18.Bb3 bxa4 19.Rxa4

After white plays 4 Qg4:

1) +0.06 (30 ply) 4...d6

2) +0.32 (29 ply) 4...g6 5.Qg3

3) +0.40 (29 ply) 4...Nd4 5.Qxg7 Qf6 6.Qxf6 Nxf6 7.Bd3 d6 8.Na4 Ne6 9.Nf3 Rg8 10.g3 Bd7 11.Nxc5 Nxc5 12.Be2 Nfxe4 13.d4 exd4 14.Nxd4 Nf6 15.f3 O-O-O 16.Bd2 Rde8 17.O-O-O Re5 18.Rde1 Rge8 19.b3 Rg8 20.Kb2 Rge8 21.Bc4 d5 22.Rxe5 Rxe5

But as others have pointed out, Qf6 is worse:

1) +0.75 (31 ply) 5.Nd5 Qxf2+ 6.Kd1 Kf8 7.Nh3 h5 8.Qg5 Qd4 9.d3 Be7 10.Qg3 Nf6 11.Rf1 b5 12.Bb3 Qc5 13.Ng5 h4 14.Qe1 Nd8 15.Bd2 a5 16.Bxa5 d6 17.Bd2 Qa7 18.Nxe7 Kxe7 19.Kc1 Be6 20.Bxe6 Nxe6 21.Nxe6 fxe6 22.Bg5 h3 23.Qg3

Clearly 'opening trap' material. I wouldn't allow Qxf2 without home preparation! But black still has a credible game.

Players stay pretty much on the computer's best until black's seventh:

1) +0.62 (25 ply) 7...h5 8.Qg5 Qd4 9.d3 Be7 10.Qg3 Nf6 11.c3 Qc5 12.Rf1 Nxe4 13.Qg6 Nf6 14.Nxf6 fxg6 15.Nxd7+ Ke8 16.Nxc5 Bxc5 17.Bf7+ Ke7 18.Bxg6 Be6 19.b4 Bb6 20.b5 Nd4 21.cxd4 Bxd4 22.Rb1 Bxa2 23.Kc2 Kd7 24.Ng5

2) +1.83 (24 ply) 7...Qd4 8.d3 Nf6 9.Nxf6 d5 10.c3 Bxg4+ 11.Nxg4 h5 12.cxd4 hxg4 13.dxc5 dxc4 14.Nf2 Rd8 15.Nxg4 Rxd3+ 16.Ke2 Nd4+ 17.Kf2 f6 18.Rb1 Ke8 19.h3 c6 20.Be3 Nc2 21.Rbd1 Kf7 22.Rxd3

So Qd4 sets black back 1.2 points to now a very bad game.

But the 8th move puts it totally out of reach. Best is:

1) +1.88 (24 ply) 8...Nf6 9.Nxf6 d5 10.c3 Bxg4+ 11.Nxg4 dxc4 12.cxd4 Bxd4 13.dxc4 f6 14.Bd2 Rd8 15.Kc2 Bb6 16.b4 h5 17.Ngf2 Nd4+ 18.Kb2 c5 19.Rad1 Ne6 20.Bc3 cxb4 21.Rxd8+ Bxd8 22.Bxb4+ Be7 23.Bc3 Kf7 24.Rd1 Rd8 25.Rxd8

2) +1.94 (24 ply) 8...h5 9.Qg3 Be7 10.c3 Qc5 11.Ng5 Nd8 12.Rf1 Bf6 13.Be3 Qd6 14.Kc2 b6 15.Nxf6 Nxf6 16.Nf3 Qe7 17.Bg5 d6 18.Nh4 Be6 19.Bxe6 Nxe6 20.Nf5 Qd7 21.Nxg7 Nxg5 22.Rxf6 Kxg7 23.Qxg5+ Kf8 24.Rff1

After 8 Bb6:

1) +4.40 (22 ply) 9.Qh5 Nd8 10.c3 Qc5 11.Rf1 f6 12.Ng5 c6 13.Be3 Qd6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Nxh7+ Rxh7 16.Qxh7 Ne6 17.Kc2 b5 18.Bb3 b6 19.Rad1 c5 20.g4 Bb7 21.g5 c4 22.dxc4 Qc6

Sep-02-19  rbhgroup: Ne7... fastest line as there are fewer calculations due to its forced response...
Sep-02-19  TheaN: <rbhgroup: Ne7... fastest line as there are fewer calculations due to its forced response...>

Fastest, but not <faster> as your post implies. Rg6+ is also fastest.

Sep-02-19  rbhgroup: <TheaN: you are confused... I am not talking about the length of the resulting variation... I thought my post made that clear. Apparently not.
Sep-02-19  Steve.Patzer: Stockfish prefers 13. Ne7+.
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The finish was pretty, but there is a whole lot of arguing over nothing.


Mar-09-20  JonathanJ: 7. h5 is not so bad for black in this variation.
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