|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-19-12 | | BOSTER: The idea of the combo is to use <discovered attack>. 16.Bxh6 gxh6
17.Qxh6 Qc7
Because now black knight has to protect h7, and black bishop e7 has to protect knight-they are limited in the mobility.
White has time to activate rook f1 playing Re1 with threat Re3-Rg3 or Rh3
18.Rfe1 Rad8
19.Re3 and white is better.
But I would not be surprised if this solution <not even closed>,because Kamsky's style is special. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | David2009: Kamsky vs Lautier, 1993 White 16?
I am tempted tby 16.Bxh6 fxh6 17.Qxh6 with the cheapo threat Bh7+ winning some material back, but I see no follow-up.
It seems better to prepare things with 16.Re1 hoping for Bd6?? 17.Bxd6 1-0. If 16...Re8 then 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6 creates a few threats.
Time to check:
====
19...Bc4!! is such a brilliant concept to find.
click for larger view is the puzzle position, with an interactive link to Crafty Endgame Simulator:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
After my suggestion 16.Re1, the robot counter-attacks immediately with 16...Bc5 and if 17.Bxh6? Ng4! with the threat of ...Qh4. It meets 16.Bxh6 with gxh6 17.Qxh6 and now 17...Bd6 18.Bc4 Ne8 19.Qg6+ Kh8 20.Qh6+ Kg8 21.Qg6+ and I am happy to accept a draw. It is outside my pay grade to win this unaided against the ES. Fast forward to just before the end of the game, we reach
click for larger view(Kamsky vs Lautier 1993 White 26?) with the interactive link
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
and I leave the interested kibitzer the task of finishing the robot off. First time round I got into an ending of QNPPP vs RRB which should have been enough to win- only to promptly fall to a sucker tactic. Second time round went much better: you don't even need to go into the above ending. Have fun exploring the variations! |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | stukkenjager: "I'm thinking now that black has to concede the pawn loss after 16 Bxh6 and follow with 16...Qa5."
Seems spot on Jim, to call this insane?? |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | Patriot: <David2009> I played the last link and won on the first try. It started like this: 1.Qxh6 Qe7 2.Nd5 Qg7 3.Nf6+ Kf7 4.Qxg7+ Kxg7 5.Nxe8+ Rxe8 6.f4 and played a pawn storm without taking a lot of risk. Eventually it was an easy win. Usually it is incorrect to play 5.Nxe8+ in the position below since 5.Nxd7 wins a piece although I hadn't worked out if it was tactically sound.
click for larger viewBut I didn't want any kind of material imbalances except having 3 extra pawns. This helped to simplify everything against the strong program. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | JoergWalter: Some comments from 1993. (For all chess engine enthusiasts: 1993 was the year when Mephisto Vancouver 68030 was world champion of microcomputers). 12....Bg4? (better 12....dxc4 13. Bxc4 Qxd2 14.Nxd2 0-0) 15....0-0? (castling into it)
18....Bd7 (18....Qa5 19.Rd3 Nh7 20.Bxf7+ Kxf7 21.Qxh7+ Kf8 22.Rg3 Bg5 23.f4 Qc5+ 24.Kh1 and white wins) |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | bachbeet: I got the first move but I was thinking of a different line that might have won black's queen (although white would have given up a lot of material). Kamsky's line was much better. |
|
Feb-19-12
 | | agb2002: The material is even.
Black would probably consider a plan based on ... Qa5, ... Rad8, ... Rfe8, ... Qh5, etc. The rook on d1, facing the black queen, suggests the maneuver 16.Qe3 to disturb the black pieces and prepare an attack against the black king: A) 16... Qe8 17.Rfe1
A.1) 17... Bb4 18.Qg3 Nh5 19.Rxe8 (19.Qg4 f5) 19... Nxg3 20.Rxf8+ Kxf8 21.Bxg3 + - [N]. A.2) 17... Nd5 18.Nxd5 Bxd5 19.Qxe7 + - [B].
A.3) 17... Nh5 18.Bxh6 gxh6 19.Qxh6 f5 20.Bc4+ Rf7 21.Qxh5 + - [R+N+2P vs 2B]. B) 16... Nd5 17.Nxd5 Bxd5 (17... Qxd5 18.Bh7+) 18.Be4 + - [B]. C) 16... Bd5 17.Bc4 + - [B].
D) 16... Nd7 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6
D.1) 18... f5 19.Bc4+ Rf7 20.Qg6+ Kh8 (20... Kf8 21.Qxf7#) 21.Bxf7 + - [R+2P vs B]. D.2) 18... Nf6 19.Bf5 Bd6 (19... Bd7 20.Rxd7) 20.Rd3 with the double threat 21.Rfd1 and 21.Rh3. E) 16... Bd7 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6
E.1) 18... Qc8 19.Nd5 Re8 20.Nxf6+ Bxf6 21.Bh7+ Kh8 22.Bg6+ and mate in two. E.2) 18... Be6 19.Ne4 Re8 (19... Nxe4 20.Bxe4 f5 21.Qxe6+ and 22.Rxd8) 20.Nxf6+ Bxf6 21.Bh7+ Kh8 22.Rxd8 + - [Q+2P vs R+B]. E.3) 18... Bc6 19.Bf5 transposes to D.2. |
|
Feb-19-12
| | agb2002: Interestingly, after 16.Qe3 Houdini 2.0 x64 prefers to give the queen away with 16... Re8 instead of facing an attack against the king. |
|
Feb-19-12
 | | scormus: One of those very tough positions that seems relativey easy (at least for a few moves) because (both) its a puzzle and because B went along with W's plan. Indeed, his best response would probably be to cut his losses with the immediate 16 ... Qa5, After 17 Qg5+ he's only a pawn down with Qs off the board and no tactical or strategical adv for W. But if B played that perhaps it would't be POTD. Or would it? Oh, and between <Jim> (thanks for pointing the way) and my Si friend here, I cant take any credit all. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | JoergWalter: <scormus> are you sure about the move numbers? 16....Qa5 17.Qg5+? I think queen exchange can be accomplished easier with 12...dxc4 etc. see my earlier post. game should be = then. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | rapidcitychess: A highly "Logical Chess" type position. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | morfishine: <JoergWalter> Excellent point <12...dxc4>. By move 16, even if White tries 16.Qe3 Black gives up his queen with 16...Re8 and white has a very tough time breaking through |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | James D Flynn: I did not find a convincing win in the game position:
A. 16 Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6 (White is not threatening 17. Bh7 Nxh7 18.Rxd8 Raxd8 and Black has too much wood for the Q. but 17.Bb1 or Bf5 ..Q moves and Rd3 with unstoppable threats on the K side) Qc7 18.Bf5 Rfd8 19.Rde1 and Black has no way to stop Re3 but 19…….Bf8 20.Qxf6 Bg7 21.Qg5 Rd4 22.Re3 Qf4 23.Qh5 Qh6 closes down the attack and we have a difficult ending with White 2 pawns up but Black having 2 bishops for B and N and a well centralized pieces.
B. 16.Bxh6 Qf7 17.Qg5 Qg4 18.Qxg4 Nxg4 with a long endgame struggle.
C. 16.Qc1 Qc8 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6 Qg4 19.f3 Qg7 and Black stands better.
Now for the game. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | James D Flynn: In the game we have pathetic defense by Black. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | Jim Bartle: Then I should really study this game. I often choose the Pathetic Defense in my games. |
|
| Feb-19-12 | | RookFile: This kind of attack happens in the Scotch Game every now and then. |
|
Feb-20-12
| | scormus: <JoergWalter: <scormus> are you sure about the move numbers? 16....Qa5 17.Qg5+?> Thanks for the question, yes <sure>. Just like I didnt claim credit I dont accept the blame if it's wrong (though I dont think it is wrong). <16 W to play> Rybka gave (on search d=21) best play 16 Bxh6 Qa5 17 Qg5+ etc resulting in W a pawn up in an otherwise rather dull position. Slight surprise to me at first sight, but on reflection I think quite logical for B to play 16 ... Qa5 and not 16 ... gxh6 first. He could certainly have fought on. Of course, had B got Qs off earlier he would not have had to pay the pawn penalty, or worse! I agree <12 ... dxc4> Seems B did not realise the danger he was heading for at the time, and maybe not even until he was staring up at the referee who was calling out "... 9, 10", having been caught by a sucker punch (or two) ;) |
|
| Feb-20-12 | | LIFE Master AJ: Nice game by Kamsky, <sethoflagos> points out that Black might have improved over this opening. |
|
| Feb-20-12 | | LIFE Master AJ: GM Gata Kamsky (2655) -
GM Joel Lautier (2645)
[B53]
Dortmund, (R# 3) / 1993.
[A.J.G.]
This was the POTD for SUNDAY; Feb. 19th, 2012.
1.e4 c5; 2.Nf3 d6; 3.d4 cxd4; 4.Qxd4!? a6; 5.Bg5 Nc6; 6.Qd2 Nf6!?; Development, but perhaps not the most accurate move. [Probably more accurate was:
6...h6! 7.Bh4 g5 8.Bg3 Bg7 9.c3 Nf6 10.Bd3 Nh5;
- "Fritz "Power-Book" ]
7.Bd3 e6; 8.c4 h6; 9.Bf4 d5;
This is a very vigorous move, however, sometimes it can be bad to open the center too early. 10.exd5 exd5; 11.0-0 Be7; 12.Nc3 Bg4?!; (Maybe, probably - '?') Here was the real culprit in Black's defeat, just about anything else would have been better. [>/= 12...dxc4 13.Bxc4 Qxd2 14.Nxd2 0-0, "=" ]
13.cxd5 Bxf3?!;
The move ... NxP/d5 looked to be forced.
14.dxc6 Bxc6; 15.Rad1 0-0;
Now we have the position for our POTD.
click for larger view Basically its "White to move and win."
White has just about all of his pieces posted on very good squares, such an aggressive set-up demands a sacrifice. 16.Bxh6!! gxh6; 17.Qxh6 Re8;
This looks forced as well.
White can win Black's Queen here with Bh7+, but that would leave the second player with too much material. 18.Bc4! Bd7;
This is probably an error as well. (Black is still lost, even with best play.) [Better was: >/= 18...Qc8▢; -Fritz 12.]
Now White has a nice Rook luft.
19.Rd4 Bf8 20.Qg6+ Bg7▢;
Black had no choice, ...Kh8??; ends in a mate after Rh4+. 21.Qxf7+ Kh8; 22.Rh4+ Nh7▢;
Once more, Black had no choice.
click for larger view Now we have a second critical position, another sacrifice quickly decides things. 23.Rxh7+! Kxh7; 24.Qh5+ Bh6; 25.Bd3+ Kg8; 26.Qxh6, "  " Black Resigns, he has had enough.
See the link by <David2009> if you want to practice "winning a won game." 1-0 |
|
| Feb-20-12 | | JoergWalter: <LMAJ> how come that 15. ... 0-0 doesn't get a comment? For me a clear ?. |
|
| Feb-20-12 | | King Death: Black's 15...0-0 sure seems like it's asking for it! |
|
| Feb-21-12 | | LIFE Master AJ: This was not an "in-depth" analysis ... I save that stuff for the my own web pages. I already pointed out where Black went wrong ... Black has to caslte sooner or later, he could not leave his King in the middle of the board (with 3 open files!!) indefinitely. As <Seth> already was the first to point out, with more vigorous play, Black might have gotten an edge out of the opening. In my book, Black deserved to lose, his play <in this game> was very passive and UN-imaginative. |
|
| May-07-13 | | Everett: I like 5.Bg5, allowing Kamsky the retreat 6.Qd2 to not block in the DSB. Smart. Don't know why 18.Bc4 popped out to me, even though it accomplishes so much... as it attacks the Q, allows a rook lift, and gives the Q the g6 square. |
|
| Sep-19-13 | | phil6875: So, I think it's pretty clear now that Black's best play is to refuse the sacrifice and give up the pawn. Then the game could follow like this, 16. Bxh6 Qa5 17. Qg5 Qxg5 18. Bxg5 Rfe8
19. Rfe1 Bb4 20. Rxe8+ Rxe8 21. Bxf6 gxf6 22. Ne2 Ba5 White has a slight advantage but Black is Ok. |
|
| Jul-06-17 | | Nova: Beautiful White attack! It is astonishing how Black's kingside is ripped to shreds with White sacrifices, yet he is still able to mate with Queen and Bishop! |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 16.Bxh6