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Anatoly Karpov vs Garry Kasparov
Kasparov - Karpov World Championship Match (1990), New York, NY USA, rd 7, Oct-26
King's Indian Defense: Orthodox Variation. Gligoric-Taimanov System (E92)  ·  1-0

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-23-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  hoodrobin: Karpov is here the best positional player (15.Ng5!). Kasparov comments are always pro domo sua.
Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <WMD>
<Later Kasparov pointed out the winning continuation: 29.Be3 Bg5 30.Nf4! Qe5 31.Bd4>

Can't Black at least escape immediate disaster with 29. Be3 Bg5 30. Nf4 <Bxf4> 31. Rxf4 Qa3? What am I missing?

Jul-31-15  Everett: <May-16-08 RookFile: You mean, other than Kasparov, in OMGP 4. Thanks for playing.>

That's one book. Kasparov called this the worst blunder of his career.

Jul-31-15  Olavi: A very bad move, but it's easy to find worse from Kasparov. As for the Zaitsev, Karpov did get a couple of clearly won positions, only he couldn't convert; so it's not so surprising he kept trying.
Jul-31-15  Howard: Now, I can't believe that 27...Qa5 was really "the worst blunder" of Kasparov's career---that's a blatant exaggeration.

Just go back through his first four matches with Karpov, for worse mistakes.

For example, what about the 23rd game of their 1987 encounter ?! Surely, Kasparov's blunder around the 50th move was far worse !

Mar-05-16  RookFile: <Everett: That's one book. Kasparov called this the worst blunder of his career. >

The issue is not the book, but thanks for playing.

Mar-06-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <RookFile: <Everett: That's one book. Kasparov called this the worst blunder of his career. > The issue is not the book, but thanks for playing.>

You would be a better poster if you excised <thanks for playing> from your vocabulary.

You say it about 1% as often as you used to, so it shouldn't be hard to give it up entirely.

Mar-10-16  RookFile: This is a strange game because Kasparov would probably see in a 5 minute game that ....Qa5 is no good due to Nd5.
Dec-08-16  cunctatorg: Vintage Anatoly Karpov!
Dec-08-16  izimbra: Elevated engine note: Stockfish sees instantly that White wins quickly with <29.Be3> which is a lot better than <29.Kh1> though the latter keeps a nice advantage. It's hard to see, because <29.Be3 Bg5 30.Nf4 Qe5> or <30...BxNf4> and black looks superficially okay. But no, both of those are disasters for Black. In the first case, <31.Bd4> traps the Black Q for real, eve though 30...Qe5 is still what Stockfish would play!..Because <30...BxNf4 31.Rxf4 Qa3 32.Rf6> is the beginning of a positional collapse. Black's Q is way offside and out of play, the Be6 has nowhere to go, and White invades on the open f-file with Q+2R while the Black K has no hiding square.


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- e.g

Dec-11-16  cunctatorg: Imho ... Karpovindian or Karpovidian!!
Feb-17-21  Everett: < RookFile: <Everett: That's one book. Kasparov called this the worst blunder of his career. > The issue is not the book, but thanks for playing.>

The issue was the book you mentioned *cough* *cough* thanks for playing

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  fabelhaft: <Kasparov just could not beat Karpov with the King's Indian in this match; this was the only decisive game in 5 or 6 tries. Superb from Karpov! -Garech>

There were no black wins in the match, I'd guess the players generally were trying to draw with black and win with white. It wasn't just then it was difficult to win with black, the last three title matches had one black win, and that was when Carlsen took too many risks to avoid a draw against Karjakin.

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

"thanks for playing" lol I hadn't heard that for 30 years.

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  fabelhaft: Black wins in title matches aren't too common lately, even for the greatest players.

Carlsen has two black wins in four matches. Anand scored three black wins in six matches, Kramnik two in four. So all of them have exactly one black win in every second match.

Kasparov played much longer matches (98 black games in 8 matches) but doesn't reach one black win per match (7 in all). Carlsen has played 22 black games in his matches, which is less than Kasparov played just in his first match.

Alekhine won eighteen games with black in his title matches. Not just thanks to Bogo and Euwe, three of the black wins were against Capa. But those were of course different times.

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  fabelhaft: The more one looks at it, the more those Alekhine wins against Capa impress. He won three games with black up until and including game 21.

The remaining fifteen years of his life (when gradually losing playing strength) Capablanca lost two games with white.

The dozen years before the match Capa had lost two games with white, both in Moscow 1925. One of them the famous Verlinsky loss the day after a 5-hour simul and two long journeys that combined must have taken around 15 hours.

Feb-17-21  Everett: <fabelhaft> re: WC wins for Black:

True! That’s partly why Carlsen’s 1st and last games at Classical time controls vs Caruana, where he had superior positions with Black, were so remarkable.

And Karpov’s 2 Black wins in ‘87 are that much more impressive.

Feb-17-21  Everett: Also, I don’t think Karpov was looking to draw with the Ziatsev-Ruy. The opening is far too asymmetric and tactical after the first theoretical moves.

One wonders if Kasparov would have ever become WC if Karpov considered, and played, the Berlin-Ruy.

I think Kasparov would’ve still been WC, but he’d do via d4.

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <fabelhaft....Kasparov played much longer matches (98 black games in 8 matches) but doesn't reach one black win per match (7 in all). Carlsen has played 22 black games in his matches, which is less than Kasparov played just in his first match....>

Hardly Carlsen's fault; it will be remembered that that abomination of a far shorter match was thrust upon the players, rather than even an 18 or 24 game limit.

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Clement Fraud: I have been reading through some of the Kibitz remarks in regard of Karpov's 29th move: the consensus of opinion seems to be that Karpov missed the best move for himself at this point, and won the game in a less impressive manner "playing it safe".

According to a book - an excellent book - called "The Complete King's Indian" by Raymond Keene and Byron Jacobs (published in 1992), Karpov was absolutely correct in his choice of 29.Kh1!

Following the variation 29.Be3 Bg5 30.Nf4 Qe5 31.Bd4 Qxe4 32.Rce1 Qf5 33.Be3 ... and White wins (because 33... Bxf4 loses) ; I shall now use a quote from The Complete King's Indian:

Nevertheless, on showing this line to the Mephisto Computer, the metal mind came up with the defence 33 ... Bh4! 34 Re2 Rf8 or 34 Bf2 Bg5! which, annoyingly, seems to hold for Black. The shape of things to come? So, Karpov's 29th move was justified after all.

End of quote.

If White tries to keep his e1 Rook on the back rank (following 33... Bh4), he forfeits his attack on the e6 Bishop. Maybe Stockfish isn't as strong as its manufacturers would have us all believe!

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Clement>
<If White tries to keep his e1 Rook on the back rank (following 33... Bh4), he forfeits his attack on the e6 Bishop. Maybe Stockfish isn't as strong as its manufacturers would have us all believe!>

No offense to anyone concerned, but if Ray Keene and a 1990-ish computer called Mephisto say one thing and Stockfish says another, go with Stockfish.

<29.Be3 Bg5 30.Nf4 Qe5 31.Bd4 Qxe4 32.Rce1 Qf5 33.Be3 ... and White wins (because 33... Bxf4 loses) ; I shall now use a quote from The Complete King's Indian:

Nevertheless, on showing this line to the Mephisto Computer, the metal mind came up with the defence 33 ... Bh4! 34 Re2 Rf8 or 34 Bf2 Bg5! which, annoyingly, seems to hold for Black. The shape of things to come? So, Karpov's 29th move was justified after all.>

SF11 on my desktop interpolates 33.h4 Bh6 34.Be3 and obviously Mephisto's defense isn't available. If 33....Bxh4 34.Nxe6 Bxe1 35.Qxe1 and White wins.

If you make the engine play 33.Be3 Bh4, then it continues with the very surprising 34.Nd3 Bxe1 35.Nxe1 Qe5 36.Bd4 Qg3 37.Bf2 Qe5 38.Nf3 Qg7 39.Ng5+ and Nxe6, and again White wins.

As it doesn't quite say in the Good Book, <the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.>

Feb-17-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  fabelhaft: <I don’t think Karpov was looking to draw with the Ziatsev-Ruy>

Maybe he wasn’t, but in the last 10 Ruys they played with Kasparov as white in their matches 1985-90 Kasparov scored 5 wins and 5 draws. Not easy to win with black against top players.

A bit different in the past. Bogo scored great results in the 1920s, winning top tournaments and not being the worst possible challenger in 1929. Still he lost 44 games with white in the 1920s! But then Bogo isn’t all that high on the greatest ever lists. Capa only lost twelve white games in his life, but then he only lost 22 with black...

Feb-18-21  Everett: <fabelhaft>

Also, check out Kasparov’s win percentage as White for the last decade of his career. It’s monstrous

Feb-18-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  fabelhaft: <Also, check out Kasparov’s win percentage as White for the last decade of his career. It’s monstrous>

Indeed, and his only white loss the last nine years of his career was the one against Radjabov in Linares 2003.

Feb-18-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The prior loss with White by Kasparov, in 1996 to Kramnik in a Meran, caused a sensation, as I recall, same as the defeat by Radjabov, if for other reasons in the latter instance.
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