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Anatoly Karpov vs Neil L Carr
Simul, 20b (1984) (exhibition), Westergate ENG
Pirc Defense: Classical Variation. Quiet System Parma Defense (B08)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
Aug-25-06  Caissanist: Was this a simul game? Nice sacrificial attach by Carr, whoever he is, but completely sound it probably isn't.
Aug-25-06  positionalgenius: <Caissanist>Yes the sac was bold but not sound.Karpov gets lazy with king defense near the end.
May-05-07  DataFly: Yes it was a simul. Neil was aged around 15/16 when this game was played. He had been world under 14 champion.
May-29-15  RookFile: What a wonderful game.
Oct-08-17  outplayer: The sacrifice is completely sound. Take a look at the line the stockfish recommends: 1) +0.45 (18 ply) 11.h3 Bd7 12.b4 Qb8 13.Bg5 Re8 14.Rfe1 a5 15.Rb1 Nh5 16.Bf1 a4 17.a3 c6 18.Bh6 Nf4 19.Bg5 cxd5
Oct-08-17  john barleycorn: < outplayer: The sacrifice is completely sound. ...>

Love that comment. Sound sacrifice? What is it? Something that gives you foreseeable compensation? Then it was not a sacrifice.

Oct-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: < john barleycorn: < outplayer: The sacrifice is completely sound. ...> Love that comment. Sound sacrifice? What is it? Something that gives you foreseeable compensation? Then it was not a sacrifice.>

"Sound" is an objective characterization of the sacrifice, it's not the same thing as foreseeability. As the engines have confirmed, Tartakower's rook sacrifice against Maroczy was sound, even though Tartakower couldn't work out all the lines before playing it. I doubt Carr worked out everything before he sacrificed here, but someone can still come along later and say, "yes, it was sound."

Maroczy vs Tartakower, 1922

I think some authors have argued that the term "sacrifice" in chess should only be used for speculative offers of material, but they haven't gotten too many followers. Anderssen's Qf6+ against Kieseritzsky is routinely described as a queen sacrifice even though it forces mate in one.

Anderssen vs Kieseritzky, 1851

<Something that gives you foreseeable compensation? Then it was not a sacrifice.>

No one besides bribe takers sacrifices without foreseeable compensation. So under your definitions there would be no such thing as a sacrifice.

Oct-08-17  zanzibar: If you are really pedantic about it, you might like to follow Spielmann's terminology:

<The most important classification of sacrifices is according to their object.

In this respect we must first distinguish between two groups, namely "sham" and "real" sacrifices. The difference is this: sham sacrifices involve losses of material for a definable amount of time; in the case of real sacrifices, the amount of time required for recovering the material is not clear.>

https://www.chess.com/blog/batgirl/...

But, as <keypusher> says, we normally just use the phrase "sacrifice", and which usage is intended is implicit from the position - though I suppose "positional sacrifice" suggests a Spielmannian "real sacrifice".

Can the same be said of an "exchange sacrifice"? I suppose so, normally.

Oct-09-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: It is possible that this is part of the simultaneous mentioned in Kasparov vs N McDonald, 1986 (kibitz #102).

Neil L Carr would have been about 16 at the time so this may have been Karpov v BCF Juniors. If so, then at that time this was one of the hardest simultaneoii a GM could give. The BCF Juniors were all very strong players.

In 1986 Kasparov scored +11 =6 -3.

Karpov scored +9 =8 -3.

Clearly it was tough going.

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