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Jan Timman vs Anatoly Karpov
Phillips & Drew GLC Kings (1984), London ENG, rd 3, Apr-28
Scotch Game: Mieses Variation (C45)  ·  0-1



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Given 61 times; par: 27 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
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May-24-14  Nick46: <parisattack: ... the 'good little Communist'> Yes, when Kasparov dethroned Karpov the former was wearing the white Stetson and the latter the black. But now ???
May-24-14  Patriot: Black is down a pawn for the bishop pair.


22.Qxe5 Bb4+ and 23...Re8

22.Bxe5 Bb4+ 23.Kf2 Re8 is an interesting attack. 24.Rhe1 Bd6

May-24-14  Patriot: 21...Rxe5 22.Qxe5 Bb4+ 23.Kf2 I really miscalculated that one.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Syntax is important here: chase away 5the bishop, check with the black bishop, check with rook, etc

No need to give up much, but the attack comes slower than expected.

May-24-14  Sally Simpson: A really good game. I see ages ago a poster was reflecting that Kaprov was never really popular with the masses.

I've never bought into that, this must be a modern way of thinking. After proving by OTB play he was a worthy champion I used to read nothing but praise for him.

Of course Kasparov's style of play over-shadowed him entertainment wise but Karpov has some truly wonderful games of chess on his CV and this is one of them.

May-24-14  Rook e2: Very nice game. I play scotch myself and the Mieses always gave me trouble. Sometimes it seems like white has to remember all the lines and black can just pick one to specialize in..
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: This was a beautifully set up attack.

White should have played 24 Kg1 to avoid the queen check on f3 but that still loses neatly to 24...Rf3!

click for larger view

The queen is trapped and lost. If white tries to move the queen to the only safe square with 25 Qd4 black has a forced mate beginning with 25...Rxg3+.

click for larger view

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Madman99x> -- <how does one avoid such a tactical onslaught as this?> Basically, one can't. Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but there isn't really any useful advice that works against strong GMs. I've played a few of them, and found they can whip up winning complications in most positions -- and in the others, they find a safe positional route to a win.

There are openings that make a tactical onslaught less likely, but then you're always liable to find yourself in a lost ending.

May-24-14  BOSTER: This is the pos. white to play 12.

2kr1b1r/p1ppqppp/1np5/2P1P3/4Q3/8/ PP1N1PPP/R1B1Kb1R

Who knows, maybe it'd be nice if chess Rules permit to play 12. 0-0 with Rxf1, and we come bere.

click for larger view

May-24-14  Marmot PFL: <<Madman99x> -- <how does one avoid such a tactical onslaught as this?>

The simplest way is to avoid unnecessary complications and develop rapidly. For example 5 Nc3 Bb4 6 Nxc6 bc6 7 Bd3 and 0-0 soon. White plays a more aggressive line (6 e5) but also riskier as it loses time and may over-extend the pawn.

May-24-14  BOSTER: My guess that PIN program can not understand why bishop f1 changed his colour.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <BOSTER> Your FEN problem is that there is an extra space for the second rank. I think this is what you wanted:

click for larger view

May-24-14  Madman99X: So Timman was in deep doodoo before 19... Ka8. That was simply the move where it becomes apparent to the casual observer.
May-24-14  BOSTER: < Once >.
Thanks for correct FEN.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Where does the e4 queen in go pole for g2 etc a c2 klepto hunt a foot in black press the point see line e5 re-instate win e5 rook in calm g5 carry on oh to range the law a feed in eg e3 queen protect ersatzer clinch a7 grin sad to see white rooks ineffective queen at e3 slam pop nip in e3 the bud also ran a ram again I map in koinus agreed path h5 queen relatively safe whilst a length in e4 suffers the sling bomb ay I g2 or key maybe in light packs punch a pocket rocket safer really in rook free focus at e8 barrel I should down e5 at tucker ala mitigate a king to hive a8 black safe as tend to knight as b3,

the flock old quacker the e4 truth in team call where to free for her majesty wings at e3 badge of honour black sets off a gauge the point to e3 bed a g5 I shall (other) wise demonstrate go crick etc back you good port of call g5 delve in a cold truth unwrap the mystery of Karpov in cross a6 and b4 affable gains net high an a6 bally-hoo king e1s under the scrum i ment eak in black a6 fang h5 cross-fire to match in meddle one free g5 focus at light advised it edge in eck h4 un does all the good play cracker school of thought decrees on ar see h4 blip ar faith have in blew away a pedal one gun I a8 call baffle as to opportune in yes h4 a mind joint support in trying to stave off a g5 any original gangs up previcate a king black duck the hoi pollois h8 over tickle f8 in safe h5 queen pawn e5 dealt a short measure goose in slip d5 I flap think eyes her bet e4 hasto retreat in g2 or c2 I park the bus a g5 packs tough blow old f4 out of sync found wanting a home only choice man go gun for g5 win b4 old over straight free port back for bottoms up re side nt in common goal vindicate rook as pair ogle off a c1 enact a king as having side-

step a kidding a8 queen at e3 it dog in dig for a party ramble give roll-over beat a path to his door g5.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: < parisattack: An amazing display by Karpov. I continue to find it surprising his games are not more popular and he is somewhat 'under a cloud' with chess fans. Perhaps he is too much remembered as the 'good little Communist' of some such. Better than Kramnik and equal to Kasparov, IMHO. >

I agree. But the "good little communist" is stupid as the USSR had long abandoned Communism: they had moved to in fact a kind of military dictatorship at least by the time Stalin was the leader. They could be said to have been "socialistic" at the most. The US in the 20s and even now wasn't radically more "democratic" and in fact the record of the US support for non democratic nations is well documented.

Karpov was no more in the wrong than Kasparov who didn't ever advocate any radical positions: once he made big money he forgot how terrible Karpov was. Meanwhile English chess players recall enjoying Karpov's company (playing friendly bridge games). Korchnoi of course made a big fuss in an effort to gain attention or throw Karpov off his game but he failed.

They may as well have said that Fischer was a good little (or big!) Capitalist - but when he decided to think for himself and buck the system the heavy Government beauracracy descended on Fischer whereupon he spat on the Government notice and cursed the United States.

(But in his earlier years that individuality was amazing and unique, no matter what nation we are talking about: he refused to bow in many cases to rules, and pushed for better money, better lighting (no trivial issue), better conditions, and much else. Of course until he retired he had played some great games so it was a pity Karpov didn't or wasn't able to play a match with Fischer (both wanted a match but both agreed the conditions weren't very good so the proposed match was abandoned).

His mother had been a radical and was closer to being a "communist" than Fischer or Karpov ever dreamed of becoming.

The fact is he was one of the best players in the world in the late 70s and the 80s and for good reasons kept his "position" and income. He certainly wasn't or isn't anti-Russian!

By contrast, yes, Fischer was the archetypical mad genius who was great when young but slowly drifted into a kind of madness as he got older.

But that doesn't detract from his (Fischer's) great abilities.

As Karpov was less "dramatic" the assumption is he wasn't capable of great chess by many - whereas in many ways his style has similarities with Fischer's (e.g. his great way, like Capablanca, of playing the Ruy Lopez).

Now he chugs on at a lower rating level and enjoys the game.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: I say all this as for a long time I didn't understand Karpov's play and I decided to play through many of his games. Many seemed "dull" as I preferred Tal and even Fischer etc but playing over Karpov's games helped my chess (in the 80s). Of course playing over and studying all the other great masters helped also. But I had a book of ALL his games (more or less, at the time) and that gives more of an overall picture of how GMs play and some idea how a club player such as myself might improve, which I did a bit.
Feb-18-15  carpovius: how to kill Timman in 26 moves)
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: If your king gets stuck in the center against someone like Karpov, count on being dead by move 30.
Mar-06-16  ColdSong: Very nice,Karpov plays this brillancy like a master of the past.
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <The move 19...Ka8!, preparing the manoeuvre Ba6-c8, is a real beauty. The white pawn at a7 protects the black king against vertical assaults and as White has no light-squared bishop, neither is there a dangerous diagonal attack.>

<19..Ka8 is a finesse, right at the moment when most players would be looking to continue their attack, (e.g.19..g5 ) Karpov improves his king position. This of course allows the final attack to be carried out in virtually one breath, as white has no counter-play! 19..Kxa7? and after 20.Bd2+,Ka8 21. Kf2, g5 does not gain a tempo.>

<I still doubt as to many of the boarder’s comment about Karpov's hindsight about 19... Ka8, saying that was in connection with transition of Black Bishop from Ba6 to Bc8 for a probable mate threat at a later stage of the game. Indeed that turned out in that way, agreed, but actual move 19... Ka8 was in response to White's move 19. Rc1. Prior to the move 19. Rc1, black King was exposed to threats from Qe4 and possible White Knight after transition from Nb2-Na5. With the move 19. Rc1 White King was exposed to immediate raging attack of Qe4, Rc1 and Knight after transition from Nb2-Na5.>


"19 ... Ka8!

There is something very elegant about a retreat of the king which is really an attacking shot. The motivation is not fear of the a7-pawn, but the threat to play ... Bb4+."

Peter Wells, "The Scotch Game." Batsford Chess, London, 1998.

Jul-04-18  Caissa04: Did Karpov just sac a took (24...Rxe5)?
Amazing things happen in the chess world
Jul-04-18  offramp: <MCaissa04: Did Karpov just sac a took (24...Rxe5)?>

This game occurred some time ago.

Jul-05-18  Howard: Even someone like Karpov would gladly sac a rook if he saw an absolutely forced win.

Keep in mind that he was an absolute master of two/three-move combinations.

Nov-16-20  fisayo123: 21...g5!! Outstanding move!
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