| Oct-08-03 | | Benjamin Lau: What does corr 1933 mean? It better not mean correspondence chess... |
|
Oct-08-03
 | | Benzol: <Benjamin Lau> It probably does. This wasn't the only correspondence game these two played. Why did you say it had better not mean correspondence chess? |
|
| Oct-08-03 | | Benjamin Lau: <Benzol>
I rarely hear of anyone, even less world champion-level players, lose (and certainly not actually checkmated) in 11 moves. |
|
| Oct-08-03 | | drukenknight: well it's called Mason variation and it's very tricky. SPassky played this as white once in his career, he won against Furman, I think. Its very tricky. |
|
| Oct-08-03 | | drukenknight: HEre is the spassky game it is probably the best example of Mason variation: Spassky vs Furman, 1959 |
|
Oct-08-03
| | Benzol: <Benjamin Lau> Looked at in that light I see your point.Keres would have been about 16 or 17 at the time wouldn't he?
I wonder if the score is correct? |
|
| Oct-08-03 | | Benjamin Lau: I agree- the score could be wrong. There is no way Keres, even as a 16-17 year old, could have gotten (actually) checkmated in 11 moves, especially not in a correspondence game. Perhaps Keres was playing black? Or maybe some wise guy decided to add in several last moves (how could Keres possibly miss checkmate in a correspondence game?) |
|
Oct-08-03
 | | chessgames.com: We've found games before where the names of the players were reversed. Anybody want to check www.chesslab.com or www.chessbase.com for a second opinion? |
|
Oct-10-03
| | Benzol: I've searched chesslab.com and didn't find any games there. However, chessbase.com lists the game twice with the information as shown previously. Why would it be listed twice? I'm still skeptical about this game score. Can anyone else help solve the mystery? |
|
| Mar-01-04 | | earthsoup: What's even stranger to me, is that simply 10. hg wins another piece - on the spot! After this, there is no way that Black can save the game. |
|
| Mar-06-04 | | capanegra: <chessgames.com> <Benzol> <Benjamin Lau> I’ve found this game in an old Argentinean book called “Joyas del Ajedrez Postal” (pearls of correspondence chess) by Eduardo J. Marchisotti. The game was played in the IV International Tournament of “Deutsche Schachzeitung” in 1933, and Keres represented Estonia, while Menke represented Germany. It is known as “the most humiliating defeat Keres has suffered in his chess career”. Likewise, what <earthsoup> says is true, but it also has an explanation: the final moves of the game are wrongly uploaded in the database (9…Bh5 and 10.Rg1 are missing). According to my book, the final moves were: 9…Bh5 10.Rg1 Qg3 11.Qe1 Nxf3 12.gxf3 Qxf3# |
|
| Mar-06-04 | | Benjamin Lau: capenegra, wow, so this game is genuine, poor Keres! Lasted 12 moves you say right? |
|
Mar-06-04
| | Benzol: <capanegra> Thanks mate. The extra moves of 9...♗h5; 10.♖g1 make more sense and solve the mystery that <earthsoup> brought to light.
It gives hope to us mere mortals that even the great can slip on the banana skins on occasion. |
|
| Apr-21-05 | | WorldChampeen: Youth obviously, may be a factor, but wow, does Keres get routed here. |
|
| Apr-21-05 | | Pawn Ambush: 9.d4. |
|
| Apr-21-05 | | iron maiden: There wasn't a dubious opening line that Keres didn't try as a youth. |
|
| May-19-05 | | Hidden Skillz: i think best move for white here is 9.Qe1..with drawing chances.. however the move d4 mentioned would lose the queen for white.. i played around with this position with myslef n couldnt find anythin convincing for white except Qe1.. |
|
| Jul-02-06 | | sleepkid: Duplicate game. Keres vs G Menke, 1933 |
|
| Dec-12-06 | | karik: 12.Qxg3 would have prolonged the game, that's why I don't understand why black didn't move 11. - Bxf3 forcing mate. |
|
| Feb-13-14 | | blackburne: Según el propio Keres escribió en uno de sus libros, durante aquella época jugó decenas de partidas por correspondencia a la vez, por lo que no es de extrañar que no les dedicase el tiempo suficiente para profundizar en cada posición. Esa puede ser la explicación de tan humillante derrota. |
|
Kibitzing
sac: 6...Nc6