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NN vs Howard Staunton
London (1841)
King's Gambit: Accepted. Bishop's Gambit (C33)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-16-05  Fulkrum: I thought it was 21...Nh4. I think this wins unless I missed something.
May-16-05  Fulkrum: Oh, nevermind. 22.Qxh7 is in order.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: I got he puzzle (of dourse as its Monday -now it is Tuesday here!! ( and it does win the game - the three pieces aren't backed by a good pawn situation

<counterpoint> your Nf4 idea looks winning even if white takes on h7 with the queen...

Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: Today’s puzzle is a rather curious one. Staunton’s combination does win the Queen, but he invests three minor pieces into the bargain. In the position at the end of the combination, Black would have Q and two R’s against one R and four minor pieces; Black’s advantage is really more positional than material. Thus, it is true that (from the position where the anonymous player[s] of the White pieces resigned) 23. Kxh1 Nxf5 24. Bxf5, would yield a position in which Black holds a winning advantage; but there is sufficient play that White’s resignation strikes me as somewhat premature. It was probably attributable to Staunton’s reputation and to the mid-nineteenth century ethos that the win of the opponent’s Queen (otherwise than in acceptance of a sacrifice leading to forced checkmate) was an alternative way to win a game of chess.

From the position in the diagram, Black’s strongest move is probably 21. … Ne7, attacking White’s overworked Queen (which must defend both the f2 square and the B/d3). After 21. … Ne7, a plausible continuation such as: 22. Re1 Nxf5 23. Rxe3 Nxe3+ 24. Ke2 Nxc4 25. Nxc4 Bxc4 26. Bxc4 Rxd4 27. Bb3 Re8+ 28. Kf1 Rd2 29. Nf3 Rxb2 30. Ne5 Rxh2 31. Bxf7+ Kf8 32.Bxe8 Kxe8 leads to a position in which White’s resignation would be by no means premature, but rather overdue.

May-16-05  Jimzovich: hmmmm... Can someone explain.
Why not the last 2 moves in reverse 21. ...Nh4 then 22. ...Bg2# ? This looks better to me.
May-16-05  JustAFish: <Jimzovich> 21... Nh4 22. Qxh7+ Kf8 23. Qxh4
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Switzerland has a Monday holiday for Pentecost? Fascinating! Black has little material advantage-but white's pieces are very passive and the king's exposed to attack. I think it's an easy win 4 black.
May-16-05  The beginner: Easy to see, when you realise there is no quick win (I did spend a few minutes trying to see if there was something better than the exhange:)

Not really a black to play and win, as black is already winning before the puzzle starts.

The combination is nice though, it is not always so easy to win those games where one is a litle material ahead if the oponent knows how to defend.

21 .. Bg2
22 Kxg2 ..Nh4+
23 Kxh1 ..Nxf5
24 Bxf5 ..Rxd4

Black won a queen, and a pawn, for 3 pieces, and the rest of white's army looks looks like they have been throwed randomly down at the board :)

Should be pretty easy for black to take it home now.

May-16-05  Stonewaller2: <Not really a black to play and win, as black is already winning before the puzzle starts.> But one of the most difficult things in Chess is winning a won position . . .
Premium Chessgames Member
  jjones5050: What does NN mean?
May-16-05  white pawn: No Name; in English anyway. I've heard a Latin meaning for it, but I can't remember what it is.
May-16-05  hintza: <jjones505, white pawn> It stands for Nomen Nescio.
May-16-05  YouRang: I missed it. I came up w/ 21... Be6, but missed the response of 22 Re1. That's what happens when you move too quickly. Sigh.
May-16-05  Shokwave: Got it pretty quickly, but kept looking for that elusive mate :)
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: 21...Be6, threatening 22...Qf2# or 22...Bxh3+ after the queen moves. Black is a rook up already; that's a winning advantage in itself.
May-16-05  YouRang: <al wazir> Yeah, that's the line I was working on. Actually Black is only up the exchange (rook for a bishop).

The problem: After 21... Be6, white doesn't have to move his queen, because he can threaten black's queen with 22. Re1. At this point, the best line for black might be:

22. ... QxRe1+
23. KxQe1 BxQf5
24. BxBf5 Rxd4
So now black has won another exchange (two rooks for two bishops) and a pawn. However, black's knight on h1 cannot move, and it can be threatened by white's light sq bishop via Be4.

So yes, black is still better, but the advantage isn't overwhelming.

Premium Chessgames Member
  penarol: 21...Be6 22. Re1 Qxd2 23.Qf3 (what else? 23. Rxe6 seems useless apart from opening the f file for the black rooks, and 23. Re2, Qc1+ 24.Re1, Bxf5 25. Rxc1, Bxd3+)...Qxh2 with overwhelming material and positional advantage for Black.
May-16-05  dasp3edd3m0n: These puzzles tick me off because I spent my time looking for a non existant mate.
Premium Chessgames Member
  jahhaj: If 21... ♗e6 then 22. ♕f3. Sure Black is still winning but it isn't as clear as 21... ♘e7 or 21... ♗g2+
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: The puzzle solution 21...Bg2+! finishes off a won game with a pretty Knight Fork.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Of course also winning even more decisively is the simple double attack 21...Ne7!
Oct-11-07  nimh: Rybka 2.4 mp, AMD X2 2.01GHz, 10 min per move, threshold 0.25.

NN 7 mistakes:
7.c3 -2.30 (7.Nc3 -0.81)
12.Bxd6 -1.41 (12.Qxg3 -0.72)
14.Bd3 -3.85 (14.Na3 -1.39)
15.Bh2 -5.35 (15.Bc7 -3.60)
18.c4 -0.66 (18.Ngf3 0.00)
20.Rd1 -4.40 (20.cxd5 -0.65)
21.Qf5 -5.39 (21.Qe2 0.25)

Staunton 5 mistakes:
7...c6 -1.38 (7...Ne4 -2.30)
9...Ne4 -0.81 (9...Re8+ -1.44)
15...Bd5 -0.68 (15...Nxd4 -5.35)
16...Qh5 -0.18 (16...Qe7 -0.83)
20...Qe3 0.25 (20...Be6 -4.40)

Nov-14-08  PolishPentium: <patzer2>: Hmmm, really? PP must disagree with your assessment of the situation. 21...Ne7 seems dubious. First, where is this double-attack of which you speak? Only one piece (the Q) is actually truly 'en prise' after that move True, there is the threat of mate on f2, but with the tempo gained by being able to give check (22 Qh7+!), W can interpose his N at e4, thereby warding off mate. No, the most forcing move for Black was what was played, the Bishop check at g2. When in doubt, give check!
Nov-14-08  sneaky pete: <PP> It doesn't make much difference, but I agree with <patzer2>. After 21... Ne7 22.Qxh7+ Kf8 23.Ne4 .. (or 23.Qh8+ Ng8 first) 23... Bxe4 white should resign. In the actual game, he might still have wriggled a bit with 23.Kxh1 Nxf5 24.Bxf5 .. etc.

Apart from the actual value of his alternatives, 21... Bg2+ has <Monday Puzzle> written all over it and is the kind of move anyone here will find in less than 0.01 nanoseconds, but finishing an attack by letting the opponent vainly explode on h7 (or h2) is really cool.

Dec-24-08  zzzzzzzzzzzz: gg(good game)
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