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Later Kibitzing> |
| May-22-23 | | TheaN: Of course the only right move is <15.Qxh6+> (Bxh6+?? #1) is just inferior, prove me otherwise <15....Rxh6 16.Bxh6#>. |
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May-22-23
 | | Sally Simpson: I've seen quite a lengthy debate on Red Hot Pawn about this. Not the same game but the same situation. Mate in two. 
click for larger viewIs best to play Qxh6+ or Bh6+ Of course It does not really matter but chess kibitzers love mundane debating. Then someone threw it into a computer and the computer's first choice was Bxh6+ so those supporting Bxh6+ claimed they had won the argument. ('supporting Bxh6+' as in just for the sake of an argument. It must have been a quiet day on the forum.) That was many years ago. Just for the sake of mundane debating can anyone tell us what a modern stockfish or Rybka gives as it's first choice. |
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May-22-23
 | | steinitzfan: What a fore-Boden position for Black. |
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May-22-23
 | | chrisowen: I but gay quip frenzy it is z jah Qxh6+ it is a flubb pub it is a duck nock bob tab if Qxh6+ gab :) |
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| May-22-23 | | Hercdon: So easy, you had two different options for mate in two |
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May-22-23
 | | HeMateMe: Sometimes NN should prefer to stay NN. |
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May-22-23
 | | paulalbert: On the issue of Q first or B first, I remember in a GM annotating his brilliancy prize winning game with a similar choice he said he sacrificed the Q rather than the lesser piece because he assumed the brilliancy prize judges would not consider the game for a prize unless he sacrificed the Q, even though objectively it made no difference to the game result. A more subtle issue discussed vehemently here on Chessgames was the question of whether Edward Lasker in his famous game against George Thomas should deliver mate by just moving his K one square ( Lasker's choice ) or castling Queenside. Here apparently the computer programs prefer using the B;not sure what computers would decide in the Lasker game. |
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May-22-23
 | | PawnSac: In situations like this it's always preferable to sac the Q! It's more sensational, it gives the player bragging rights, the crossfire bishops are more beautiful in combination, and if someone asks..
"Hey how did your game go?" you can answer..
"I sac'ed my Q and checkmated him" they will of course want to see the game! Everyone loves a good queen sac!
And last but not least.. Your game has a better chance to be displayed on queen-sac Monday here at CG! <wink> of course we all know it doesn't matter, a mate is a mate. |
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| May-22-23 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: Many will see... 15. Bxh6+ Rxh6 16. Qxh6# |
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| May-22-23 | | QueenMe: I did it with the bishop going first. I concede taking with the queen first looks sexier. |
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May-22-23
| | PawnSac: I noticed..
< changed Site tag from "Hamburg Germany" to "Hamburg GER" -- Stonehenge > so I guess now we can call this the
<Hamburger attack> |
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May-22-23
| | PawnSac: <QueenMe: I did it with the bishop going first. I concede taking with the queen first looks sexier.> She wouldn't have been the first queen to lose her life to make some bishop look good. |
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| May-22-23 | | Cfachini28: bxh6+... just in case I'm wrong |
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May-22-23
 | | Steve Holloway: either Bxh6+ or Qh6+ |
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| May-22-23 | | DrGridlock: Fritz 17 has it:
1 (#2) Bxh6
2 (#2) Qxh6
Over the board, I'd probably go with the bishop capture on h6 - so if there was a "ghost in the machine" I wouldn't be out the queen. |
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| May-22-23 | | vajeer: This queen sac is not classy imo! |
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| May-22-23 | | johnnydeep: God save the Queen! ...By sacrificing the Bishop of course! |
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| May-22-23 | | Damenlaeuferbauer: The strong Ukrainian IM Fyodor Duz-Khotimirsky, who defeated Emanuel Lasker and Akiba Rubinstein in ONE tournament (St. Petersburg 1909), could have played 15.Bxh6+,Rxh6 16.Qxh6#, but finished the game with the nice queen sacrifice 15.Qxh6+!,Rxh6 16.Bxh6# (both move orders are mate in 2 moves). This is another evidence, that the later Soviet Union had very good players BEFORE the October Revolution in 1917 and the foundation in 1922! |
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May-22-23
 | | FSR: <PawnSac: In situations like this it's always preferable to sac the Q! It's more sensational, it gives the player bragging rights, the crossfire bishops are more beautiful in combination, and if someone asks.. "Hey how did your game go?" you can answer.. "I sac'ed my Q and checkmated him" they will of course want to see the game! Everyone loves a good queen sac!> Exactly. Sacking your queen for a pawn is spectacular. Sacking a bishop, not so much, even though the result is the same. In Fischer vs J Jones, 1964, Fischer's 8.Bh6+ wasn't a sac at all. Had Black played on, he would have taken with the knight, whereupon 9.Qxh6 would have checkmated him. "I gave up a bishop for a knight and mated him!" pales greatly in comparison to "I sacked my queen and mated him!" Fischer's game doesn't even show up in Sacrifice Explorer, since giving up a bishop for a knight (arguably a "sacrifice" of 0.25 pawns or some such) doesn't exactly stir the blood. |
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May-22-23
 | | perfidious: Much prefer the more aesthetic Qxh6+ to close the show. |
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May-22-23
| | Sally Simpson: I suppose the computer has to have some kind of method for deciding which it displays first. Possibly after Bxh6+ it is left with more points on the board (using that Queen=9 Bishop =3 table ) or it could be something as simple as alphabetical order. |
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May-22-23
| | PawnSac: yea yer probably right about that.. with the engine, there's no quest for glory.. its just number crunching and eval points. |
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May-22-23
| | PawnSac: <FSR:> right! 8.Qh6! is SO much prettier. opponent was J Jones ..
maybe it was a woman "Joan" and he was being polite lol |
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| May-23-23 | | Sularus: <chrisowen> exactly |
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May-25-23
| | HeMateMe: In <A Tale of Two Cities> the sacrife is even larger! <https://www.bing.com/images/search?...> |
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Kibitzing
sac: 14.Rxf6+
