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Trattner vs Peter Campbell Gibbs
ENG (1955)
King's Gambit: Declined. Classical Variation (C30)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
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Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <Sneaky: <ycsidney: always love to read the lines of thinking and analysis of dzechiel> Me too. In fact I think I enjoy his commentary even more on the occasions when he goes down the wrong track: it demonstrates how we can trick ourselves by being blind to something.>

Nobody else seems to have pointed this out, but it takes a lot of courage to publish errors. I agree absolutely with <Sneaky>: I have learned a lot from <dzechiel>'s errors, certainly more than from the "correct" 2-move analyses that many people post.

Jan-15-08  Civhai: I also found the solution rather quickly. First, I tried out the direct f2+, but I soon found out, that because the white knight isn't pinned any more and can recapture the queen, this isn't very useful and then I tried out Bxc3+ wich worked.
Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: Amazing how long this took me. After I realized that 9....f2+ 10. Kxf2 broke the pin, so that if 10....Qxd1 the white knight can recapture, I looked for mates or queen-winning combinations starting with 10....Bc5+, but couldn't find any. 9...fxg2 and 9....Qh4+ were obviously useless. Finally I said to myself, "just take the knight, idiot!"

Looking at the comments, I noticed that <dzechiel> points out an important finesse: after 9...Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 f2+ 11. Kxf2 Qxd1 12. cxb7 threatens both 13. bxa8/Q and 13. Bb5+, winning back the queen. But 12....Qc2+ gains time for 13....Bxb7.

Jan-15-08  TheEnterprise: 2/2 this week. ; )
Jan-15-08  parmetd: this puzzle is more interesting with white to move where the Qxf3 subtlely unleashes a power.
Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: <<<dzechiel> points out an important finesse: after 9...Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 f2+ 11. Kxf2 Qxd1 12. cxb7 threatens both 13. bxa8/Q and 13. Bb5+, winning back the queen. But 12....Qc2+ gains time for 13....Bxb7.>>

Yes, IMO if you didn't notice the 12.cxb7 idea and its refutation then you can't claim to have solved this one.

This reminds me, incidentally, of a trap in the Stafford Gambit, in the position arrising after 1.e4 e5 2.♘f3 ♘f6 3.♘xe5 ♘c6 (this is the gambit - a center pawn for 2 tempi) 4.♘xc6 bxc6 5.e5 ♘e4 6.d3?


click for larger view

Now Black has 6...♗c5! since if 7.dxe4?? ♗xf2+ 8.♔e2 ♗g4+, winning the Queen.

Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Deflections are always pleasing. Finding the pawn move was easy because there were few pieces developed and therefore not very many interesting moves for B to try. Seeing that ...Bg4+ wins the queen even if W has declined to take the pawn adds a nice fillip

I'd like to join the chorus of praise for <dzechiel>'s analyses. Always self-effacing and enlightening.

Jan-15-08  MostlyAverageJoe: <griga262: I would like to hear what others think about the difficulty of this puzzle: is it really easy enough for a Tuesday?>

This is one of the relatively few puzzles that seem to resist an attempt to classify their difficulty with engine analysis (see my forum header for how I proposed to do it). While the first move is easily found, at the settings indicating Monday range of difficulty, Hiarcs didn't give it the correct valuation and, at the Monday settings, it expected some ridiculous follow-up (something like 9...Bxc3 10.bxc3 Qe7+??).

The first five plies of nearly-strongest play for both sides (9. ... Bxc3+ 10. Bd2 f2+ 11. Kxf2 Bxd2) were discovered only at Wednesday settings. Even at the strongest settings, Hiarcs is slow in reaching deep plies, indicating a complex position with many lines of play that have similar evals.

This is not to say that that the puzzle is too difficult for Tuesday; while there are many ways for white to try to defend, black has just as many diverse attack methods. The five plies mentioned above are probably what most people would play OTB, and result in this position:


click for larger view

where black is 2 pieces ahead, white c-pawn is not much of a threat any more, and white king is widely open. Hiarcs gives it a (-9.00) valuation at 15-ply deep.

However, here's a completely different follow-up by black that is kinda cute and not likely to be played by humans, IMO. Hiarcs likes it just a bit better than the previous one.

9. ... Bxc3+ 10. Bd2 Qh4+!?

A bit strange move, isn't it? In the resulting position


click for larger view

white has an obvious defense (g3) getting 2 black pieces under attack (Q and B). But two moves later, black is safe, and one piece ahead:

11. g3 Qe7+ 12. Kf2 Bd4+


click for larger view

Now, black has time to ignore the c-pawn and get his LSB into attack:

13. Kxf3 Be6

White has many nearly equivalent lines now, but all of them end up getting a skewer on white K and R -- and now we see that the 10...Qh4 move served to deflect the g-pawn and opening up the rook on h1 for attack. Black will end up with 2 pieces and an exchange ahead.

Jan-15-08  YouRang: One's eye is immediately drawn to the idea of removing the white queen's defenders (knight & king). To do so requires checking moves (we can't give white time to move his queen, e.g. Qxd7+).

These checking moves are easy to see: ...Bxc3 (remove the knight) and ...f2+ (deflect king to f2, or if Ke2 then ...Bg4+ & black wins).

Of course, the knight must be taken first, because 9...f2+? 10. Kxf2 and white escapes: 10...Bxc3 11. Qxd8+ & 12. bxc3 or 10...Qxd1 11. Nxd1.

A perfect Tuesday puzzle. :-)

Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: ♙f2 should write his memoirs now.
Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The king's defense of the queen is always a soft spot in chess. Even in the opening position,the king is bound to both the queen and the kbp. It only takes an opponent that can menace both that the overworking problem can arise. The usual way is with the queens in "opposition" at d1 and d8 and the bishop menacing the kbp. In this case,a pawn acts as a "probishop" to divert the king from the queen. If the king gets any idea of moving forward,the skewer with the "other bishop" catches the lady anyhow.
Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: It's not a difficult puzzle if you play the Albin Countergambit and are familiar with Lasker's Trap (1.d4, d5 2. c4, e5 3. dxe5,d4 4. e3,Bb4+ 5. Bd2,dxe3 6. BxB4,exf2 -if White plays Kxf2, he loses his Queen--7.Ke2, fxg1=N+ 8.Rxg1,Bg4+, bagging the White Queen). This pattern is very similar.
Jan-15-08  crwynn: <Yes, IMO if you didn't notice the 12.cxb7 idea and its refutation then you can't claim to have solved this one.>

Not exactly - I think 12...Bb7 13.Bb5+ c6 would also win eventually, although it's pretty stupid. Unlike the famous line in the Danish Gambit (it has to be famous if even I know it) 1.e4 e5 2.d4 ed 3.c3 dc 4.Bc4 cb 5.Bb2 d5 6.Bd5 Nf6 7.Bf7 Kf7 8.Qd8 Bb4, regaining the queen in the same way. In that line White sacks a piece to win the Q so Black can do likewise to regain it; not so here.

Jan-15-08  crwynn: Well, 13...Qd7 actually, why give up the c-pawn
Jan-15-08  DarthStapler: Another easy one.
Jan-15-08  dzechiel: <MAJ: However, here's a completely different follow-up by black that is kinda cute...>

Very interesting! Thanks for taking the effort to publish this line with diagrams, I really enjoyed it.

I'm in agreement with you that the human player would not bother to search for this line once the win of the piece was in hand.

Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  benveniste: White can avoid the loss of the queen with 10. Bd2, but it's still a massacre. Instead, black wins at least two full pieces.
Jan-15-08  wals: So what to do. 9...f2+ 10.Kxf2 Bc5+ 11.Ke1 Qe7+
all seems a bit long winded
how about 9...Qe7+ 10.Bf-e2 f3xe2 11.Qxe2 Bc8-g4
Thats my best shot................lets have a look
What a pathetic effort....missed the boat completely
Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  penarol: Nice puzzle! I think yesterday´s was tougher (and very nice too!)
Jan-15-08  MiCrooks: It is often the case on here that the best defense is not played. However, the idea that the difficulty of the problem is somehow related to how quickly a computer zeros in on the correct solution seems odd to me.

A computer quickly sees that after Bxc3 it cannot take back and starts looking for the best way to squirm. The human looks at it and says if I can't take back, and I have no threats of my own then I am just dead in the water. So what is easy for a human takes longer for a computer as it tries to decide which of the many relatively equal losing lines is best!

In this case, as in others, if you want to attempt this sort of thing you need to only see how long it takes a computer to find the first move. For a human, this is insufficient as often the "try" is obvious but the proof is in finding the correct follow up.

Jan-15-08  MostlyAverageJoe: <MiCrooks: ... the idea that the difficulty of the problem is somehow related to how quickly a computer zeros in on the correct solution seems odd to me.>

It may be odd, but there appears to be a reasonable correlation between the difficulty computed by the engine and the difficulty designated by CG. Furthermore, on many occasions when the puzzle solving crowd's opinion was "too easy" or "too difficult", the engine agreed with such assessment (the most recent case of such agreement happened yesterday).

In very few cases, the perception and engine analysis disagreed (people said it was too easy, while engine had a hard time, or vice versa).

Only Sat/Sun puzzles (and some endgame puzzles) frequently defy the classification with any regularity - usually beacuse they require more computing resources than my method allows.

One of these days, I will finally write the code for automated difficulty analysis and run the results through a more rigorous statistical analysis. For now, I am still evolving the approach, although I've been playing with this idea for about 10 months now.

Jan-15-08  patzer2: For today's Tuesday puzzle solution, White plays the deflection combination 9...Bxc3+ to remove the guard after 10. bxc3 f2+! and win the Queen after either 11. Kxf2 Qxd1 or 11. Ke2 Bg4+ (skewer tactic).
Jan-15-08  pawnofdoom: I think this puzzle was easier than yesterdays. It's always easier to find checks on the puzzles, and the first two checks I considered were f2+ and Bxc3+
Jan-15-08  TheaN: 2/2

Why don't I have these nice miniatures XD?

9....Bxc3+ 10.Bd2 with a lost game as: 10.bxc3 f2+! 11.Kxf2 (Ke2 Bg4 12.Kxf2 Bxd1 is actually worse) Qxd1 12.Bb5! (cxb7 Qc2+ with Bxb7) Qc2+! (Qxh1 13.cxb7+ with difficult variations) 13.Kg1 bxc6 wins as 14.Bxc6+ Bd7 15.Bxa8 is no compensation for the lost development and Q<>R.

Jan-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: White's queen looks like it's about to fall off, but the immediate 9...f2+? (similar to the classic Albin Countergambit trap) doesn't work since White's knight also guards the queen. So let's kill the knight first: 9...Bxc3+! 10.bxc3 (perhaps 10.Bd2 is better, but that would still leave White a piece down and dead lost) f2+! and now 11.Ke2 Bg4+ or 11.Kxf2 Qxd1 12.cxb7 (it's cheapo time) Qc2+! (12...Bxb7?? 13.Bb5+) and 13...Bxb7 wins.
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