< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jan-13-10|| ||OBIT: IMO, the compensation after 16...Nxd4 17. Bxa8 Rxa8 is so obvious that it can be played with very little calculation. Positional considerations aside, I don't think there is much difference between a rook and a minor piece in the middle game. So, if you think the game will be over before the end game, what the heck, sac tbe exchange. |
For this particular problen, after the exchange sac (which also nets a center pawn), every Black piece is on the attack, while White's king is exposed and rooks are out of play. Which piece would you rather have in this position, any of the Black minor pieces or the White rooks on a1 and h1?
|Jan-13-10|| ||YouRang: Well, I saw that the main pressure point in this position was the pawn on d4. I started out looking at removing the knight defending that pawn with <16...Bxf3>, which prevents Bxc6 and looks like it leads to a good attack for black -- mostly because white is so pathetically behind in development. e.g. |
17.gxf3 Rac6 <unpinning and guarding Nc6>
18.Qd3 <get Q off back rank to support pawns & LSB, with attack on Ph7> Nxd4
20.Be4 <don't get trapped by ...g6> Qh4+
21.Kg2 f5! <attack LSB and prepare for rook lift on f-file>
22.Qxd4 Bc5 <save our DSB with attack on Q, and xray attack on f2, next, we get our bishop back with fxe4>
I can't see much further than this, but at the end of this line, black has a viscous attack against an exposed king. I'm looking at ...Rf6 & ...Rg6+ with my other rook waiting to join in (probably with check) at e8.
Meanwhile, white's rooks are sitting in their corners like stumps. Black has got to be winning handily. (Of course, I might have missed a better defense for white along the way...).
|Jan-13-10|| ||Summerfruit: Material is even.
The knight is imumune from capture: 17.Qxd4 Bc5 or 17.Nxd4 Bxd1 losing the queen in both cases.
Black is now a pawn up and white could try:
Now 17...Nxf3+ is threatened.
a) 17.Bb7/Bd5/Be4 Nxf3+ 18.Ke2/Kf1 Ne2++/Nxh2+ loses the queen.
b) 17.Kg1 Nxf3++ 18.Kf1 Nxh2+ loses the queen.
c) 17.Kf1 Rd8
c1: 18.Qe1 Ne2+ forking
c2: 18.Qa4 Nxf3 19.Bxf3 Bxf3 20.gxf3 Qh4 21.Qc2 Rd1+ 22.Qxd1/Ke2 Qf2#
|Jan-13-10|| ||patzer2: <Jimfromprovidence> After 17. Kf1, your solution of 17...Bxf3 is probably the most practical for OTB play. However, Fritz gives the interesting possibility 17. Kf1 Bc5! as slightly stronger, when play might continue 18. Bxa8 Rxa8 19. h3 Bxf3 20. gxf3 Re8 21. h4 Re3 22. Bxe3 fxe3 23. Kg2 Qg6+ 24. Kh3 Qf5+ 25. Kg2 e2 26. Qe1 Qxf3+ 27. Kh2 Bd6+ 28. Kg1 Qg4+ 29. Kf2 Qg3#.|
|Jan-13-10|| ||ajk68: What's the line after 18...Qa4|
|Jan-13-10|| ||butilikefur: what's wrong with 20...Qxf4 21. gxf3 Re8 or 20...Rd8|
|Jan-13-10|| ||cyclon: Positionally I would suggest something like 16. -Rac8, but the game being in so early stage and this - a puzzle - I suppose it would be something like; 16. -Nxd4 17.Bxa8 (h3 Bxf3) -Bc5 Black has an attack.|
|Jan-13-10|| ||butilikefur: actually <20. Bxf4 Qxf4 21. gxf3 Bh3> looks winning|
|Jan-13-10|| ||goodevans: <ajk68: What's the line after 18...Qa4>|
<16 ... Nxd4 17 Bxa8 Rxa8 18 Qa4 Bc5 19 b4> (19 Nxd4 Qxd4+ is mate-in-2 whilst 19 Re1 and 19 Rd1 both lose quickly to 19 ... Nxf3+) <19 ... Nf3+ 20 bxc5 Qd4+ 21 Kf1> (21 Ke2 Nd2+ 22 Ke1 Qe3#) <21 ... Qxa1> is a clearly winning for black.
|Jan-13-10|| ||ruzon: If you don't see 18...Bc5, the puzzle is impenetrable. Hardest time I've had with a Wednesday in a good long while.|
|Jan-13-10|| ||goodevans: <butilikefur: what's wrong with 20...Qxf4 21. gxf3 Re8>|
I quite like this, but with no immediate threat there are a number of moves that white might try. Does 22 Kg2 hold? Or 22 Qd3? Or 22 h3? Or 22 h4?
21 gxf3 looks pretty even I think.
<actually <20. Bxf4 Qxf4 21. gxf3 Bh3> looks winning>
22 Qd6 looks strong to me.
|Jan-13-10|| ||WhiteRook48: yes! got it|
|Jan-13-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <Patzer2> <After 17. Kf1, your solution of 17...Bxf3 is probably the most practical for OTB play. However, Fritz gives the interesting possibility 17. Kf1 Bc5! as slightly stronger,...>|
Thanks for analyzing that line further.
I tried to see if by conceding the d pawn and retreating the king it could help black regroup, but the position is so porous nothing worked for me.
|Jan-13-10|| ||butilikefur: <20. Bxf4 Qxf4 21. gxf3 Bh3 22. Qd6> White's lost as follows <22...Qh4+ 23. Ke2> 23. Kg1 (23. Qg3 23. Qd4+ Ke2 24. Re8+) 23...Re8 24. Qd2 Re2 mates <23...Re8+ 24. Kd2 Qf2+ 25. Kc1 Qxf3> 26. Rd1 Qc3+; 26. Kc2 Re2+; 26. Qd1 Qa3+ 27. Kd2 Rd8+|
|Jan-13-10|| ||goodevans: <butilikefur>,
I think <20. Bxf4 Qxf4 21. gxf3 Bh3 22. Qd6 Qh4+ 23. Kg1 Re8 24. Qd2 Re2> is particularly neat.
So <22 Qd6> isn't white's saving move. Perhaps, though, the odd looking <22 Qg1> is? Black gets to chase the K all over the place, but can he catch him?
Heck, we could go on like this all night. Only I can't: I've got work in the morning and I need to get some sleep!
|Jan-13-10|| ||butilikefur: haha, yea analysis is too fun. thanks for the session. gud night.|
|Jan-13-10|| ||TheBish: U Kavcic vs Pavasovic, 1998|
Black to play (16...?) "Medium/Easy"
16...Nxd4! looks really strong, since 17. Qxd4?? Bc5 pins and wins, and 17. Bxa8 Rxa8 leaves Black with a strong attack, with threats of 18...Nxf3 followed by 19...Qh4+, as well as 18...Bc5 followed by 19...Nxf3.
|Jan-13-10|| ||johnlspouge: Wednesday (Medium/Easy)
U Kavcic vs Pavasovic, 1998 (16...?)
Black to play and win.
Material: Even. The White Kf2 has 4 legal moves and is secured from check, except 16…Qxd4+ or 16…Qh4+. Capture of Pd4 leads to a possible pin against Kf2 with Bd6-c5, but unfortunately the White Be4 already pins the loose Nc6 against Ra8. The Black Kg8 is secured from check.
Candidates (16...): Nxd4, Bxf6, Nxd4
[16…Nxd4 17.Bxa8 wins R for B+P]
[16…Bxf6 17.Bxf6 seems unproductive]
16…Nxd4 17.Bxa8 [Qxd4 Bc5 pins and wins Qd4]
[else, drop at least a P]
17…Bc5 (threatening 18…Nxf3+, with Bg5 eventually taking Qd1)
<[Toga evaluates 17…Bc5 at over +3.0 P for Black, although not as strong as 17…Rxa8.]>
18.b4 [Kf1 Rxa8 leaves Black developed and in control]
18…Nxf3+ 19.bxc5 [else, Bg5 will take Qd1]
19…Qh4+ 20.g3 [else, Bg5 will take Qd1]
20…fxg3 21.hxg3 Qxg3+
The White position has fallen apart.
|Jan-13-10|| ||turbo231: It took me forever but i think i found it. All i have to do is play Rybka set at 20 moves in 25 minutes then i will find out. Most of the time these puzzles wont work on Rybka, if you give Rybka enough time to study. That's the trick the more time you give Rybka the less times that these puzzles work. If you really want to make sure you could set the time at 20 moves in 60 minutes repeating of coarse. Then watch Rybka work her magic! I'm going to try to pin the white queen with my bishop.|
|Jan-14-10|| ||turbo231: As i thought Rybka didn't play the way i wanted her to play.|
|Jan-14-10|| ||NakoSonorense: I didn't find 18.Be2, but I was sure that regardless of White's next move, Black had a decisive advantage after 18...Bc5.|
3/3 this week! =)
|Jan-14-10|| ||turbo231: I got the first move right, but then then my ignorance stepped in so i got the second move wrong.
Or was it the third?
Then again maybe rybka put a stop to my foolishness.
The very first move rybka made was to move her king down so i couldn't pin him with the bishop. Rybka is tuff.
As i said before the trick is to give rybka time to analize the game 20 moves in 25 minutes repeating, even better would be 20 moves in 30 minutes repeating, and you will be amazed at what rybka can really do.
|Jan-14-10|| ||kevin86: black gives up a stored rook to press the attack.|
|Jan-17-10|| ||VargPOD: Wednesday.
Did not get this one, went to 16...Bxf3.
Total 2/3, 5,5/10.
|Feb-18-10|| ||abstract: KG games shall be always 3.NF3, otherwise white is grinded|
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