chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Veselin Topalov vs Vladimir Kramnik
"Toppling Topalov" (game of the day Aug-22-2018)
Belgrade Investbank (1995), Belgrade SRB, rd 6, Nov-20
Sicilian Defense: Classical. Anti-Fischer-Sozin Variation (B57)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 30 times; par: 47 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 102 more Topalov/Kramnik games
sac: 18...Nxg3 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Premium members can suggest a game for Guess-the-Move with the Guess-the-Move Suggestion Queue.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-13-09  tonyboy: Bc3+ followed a5 winning the Q
Oct-13-09  zanshin: Got it - but maybe a little tough for a Tuesday? Not a great week for me so far! I blew yesterday's puzzle and struggled with today's.
Oct-13-09  gofer: Black is a piece down and white has a mating combination next move (39 exf7 Kxf7 40 Qe7+ Kg8 41 Ke6+ Kh8 42 Qxc8+ Bf8 43 Qxf8#), so whatever black does it has to be pretty damn good!

38 ... a5 trying to get the king to play Kxa5 and then black plays Bc3+ winning the queen fails to Kxb5, but what about the same theme in a slightly different move order!

38 ... Bc3+ (which is mate if the bishop isn't taken!) 39 Qxc3 a5+ winning the queen!

Time to check!

Oct-13-09  fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me
Oct-13-09  A Karpov Fan: what is the lifetime score between Kramnik and Topalov?
Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: It purely revolves around the white king position. Black does the hustle, good game no con involved, Bc3+ just mugs him off.
Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheTamale: <fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>

That was EXACTLY what happened to me. So at least you're not alone.

:-)

Oct-13-09  Patriot: Material: Black is down a piece for two pawns.

White threatens 39.exf7+ Kxf7 40.Qe7+ Kg8 41.Qe6+ and 42.Qxc8+, so black needs to at least meet this threat.

38...Bc3+ 39.Qxc3 a5+ 40.Kxa5/Kxb5 Qxc3

<<fyad reject>: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>

This puzzle uses one of the most common tactical themes: "removal of the guard" (also known as "deflection" but I would rather think of it in terms of removing the guard because that seems to describe it better).

I would say you are fully capable of solving puzzles like this, but lack the "weapons of chess" to do so effectively. You need to arm yourself with the tools needed for better success. Practice simple tactics, over and over, and the answers will become more and more obvious.

Oct-13-09  JG27Pyth: Quite a tangle those two have gotten themselves into..

<Is it me, or are this week's puzzles not as easy as the typical Monday and Tuesday offerings?>

it's not you! Speaking purely selfishly -- I like it -- my favorite puzzles are wed thurs fri -- if the difficulty gets averaged toward the middle a bit, fine by me.

This one was miss-able because it was so easy to fool around with the all the elements of the puzzle and reject them indiviudally, without finding the correct move order that lets them work together -- that and the fact that the position is complicated enough that until you've found the solution you can't be sure you're working on the right part of the position, perhaps theres some other idea to be had....

But I got it because a5 and then forking the Queen seemed so close there just had to be a way -- and for once I remembered to try changing the move order.

Oct-13-09  beenthere240: If the time control had not been reached and the players were still scrambling, 41. ef7+ might have been worth trying for a swindle, since the black king still has to worry about 2 bishops. For example 41..Kxf7 42. Bc4+ Kg7? [or f6]? 43. Bd4+ and black drops his queen.
Oct-13-09  VincentL: This first move must be 38 exf7+

38.....Kxf7 39. Qe7+ Kg8 40 Qf6+ wins the black rook

38.....Kd8 39. Qe7 mate

38. Kd7 39. Qe7+ Kc6 40. Qd6+ Kb7 41. Qb6+ Ka8 42. Qa7 mate

Oct-13-09  VincentL: No !!! It's black to play !

Then it must be 38....Bc3+

39. Qxc3 a5+ and the white king must take one of the pawns (a4/b4) resulting in the loss of the queen.

This seems more like a puzzle.

Oct-13-09  jsheedy: 38...Bc3+, 39. QxB, a5+ wins the Queen after K takes a or b pawn.
Oct-13-09  YouRang: I feel a little dumb about taking so long to see it. I mean, the first moves I looked at were the check moves: (1) a5+ and (2) Bc3+.

So why did it take me so long to consider using them BOTH?!

Oct-13-09  mworld: < TheTamale: <fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me> That was EXACTLY what happened to me. So at least you're not alone.

:-)
>

exact same here! Amazing how this is the case for a lot of us. I even decided a5 (first) was probably the right move because of the threat of losing the queen if white plays kxa5 ...if only i could have connected the dots and reorganized the move order. I can't believe i looked at bc3+ as well and still didn't connect the dots.

Its odd, but something about this position made it so hard to see this simple combination.

Oct-13-09  Patriot: For those wondering why you considered 38...Bc3+ and dismissed it quickly because of 39.Qxc3:

This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet". It is failing to consider further checks, captures, and threats. An example is thinking QxQ wins a queen without seeing that on the next move, PxQ wins it back.

But I think the other issue is failing to see there's a "removal of the guard" after 39.Qxc3 (39...a5+). This tactic is one of the most common tactical themes and is worth it's weight in gold to practice.

Oct-13-09  YouRang: <Patriot><This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet".>

I am myself an expert on this type of error. (Making them, that is.)

Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: Black wins material with 38...Bc3+ 39. Qxc3 a5+ (deflecting the king from protecting the queen) 40. Kxb5 Qxc3.
Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Oh, a nice deflection. First the White queen will be lured into the vulnerable spot with Bc3+. She must capture. Then a5+ deflects the King away. The queen falls.
Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first? Or is that too bloody obvious?
Oct-13-09  Riverbeast: <Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first?>

If ..a5 first, white plays Kxb5, and the king is dancing, bobbing, and weaving.....

And black would end up in last place

Oct-13-09  beenthere240: If black plays 38....a5+ first, white's king simply takes the b pawn and the fork evaporates. That's why the move order is critical.
Oct-13-09  Marmot PFL: A Sicilian classic. Black (Kramnik) rejects the easy draw on move 26 and wins a brilliant game. A shame that he now plays mainly the Petroff.
Oct-13-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: This one took me awhile. I noticed first the possibility of 38...Bc3+ but the square is double protected. Then I saw 38...a5+ but that seemed to fail to 39.Kxb5. Then I looked at 38...Rxc5 39.Kxc5 but couldn't spot any forcing continuations. Just before I gave up I thought, one more looksy. Then I saw it: Give the 38...Bc3+ then 39.Qxc3 a5+! and the queen is toast.
Oct-13-09  muralman: My son got this one first rather quickly, after I discovered the bishop move. Pawns are powerful agents. I tend to forget that.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any gratuitous name-calling of any members—including Admin and Owners—or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Nice B57 attack
from Kramnik! by larrewl
World's Greatest Chess Games- Nunn Emms Burgess
by demirchess
Chess Informant Best Games 4
by koinonia
topa-kramnik
from vimapavic2's favorite games by vimapavic2
Sicilian Def Classical. Anti-Fischer-Sozin Var (B57) 0-1 38...?
from 1990s Longer KPs of the 1990s by fredthebear
World's Greatest Chess Games- Nunn Emms Burgess
by Rookpawn
VaselineTopLove's favorite games - part 3
by VaselineTopLove
38 - Bg7-c3+! 39 Qe1xBc3 loose queen drops off to remove guard
from LPDO -> LOOSE PIECES DROP OFF! (GM DR J. NUNN) by notyetagm
hugo favorite games
by hugoqu
something to think about
by tldr3
musicmanTRIBALx's favorite games
by musicmanTRIBALx
dance of the knights
from Alexander228's favorite games by Alexander228
XXI Century Masterpieces/Second decade (2011) Pt
by syracrophy
Game 94
from The Mammoth Book of the World's Greatest Chess G by smarticecream
Game 94
from Mammoth Book-Greatest Games (Nunn/Burgess/Emms) by tiber56
Black to play, (38... '?'). [Tuesday; October 13th, 2009.]
from "ChessGames" >Problem of The Day< (2009) by LIFE Master AJ
Chess Informant Best Games 4
by Olanovich
38...? (Tuesday, October 13)
from POTD * Sicilian Defense - Part 1 by takchess
Chess Informant Best Games 4
by Nimzophile
Complex games
by JoseTigranTalFischer
plus 79 more collections (not shown)


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC