< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
|Oct-13-09|| ||tonyboy: Bc3+ followed a5 winning the Q|
|Oct-13-09|| ||zanshin: Got it - but maybe a little tough for a Tuesday? Not a great week for me so far! I blew yesterday's puzzle and struggled with today's.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||gofer: Black is a piece down and white has a mating combination next move (39 exf7 Kxf7 40 Qe7+ Kg8 41 Ke6+ Kh8 42 Qxc8+ Bf8 43 Qxf8#), so whatever black does it has to be pretty damn good!|
38 ... a5 trying to get the king to play Kxa5 and then black plays Bc3+ winning the queen fails to Kxb5, but what about the same
theme in a slightly different move order!
38 ... Bc3+ (which is mate if the bishop isn't taken!)
39 Qxc3 a5+ winning the queen!
Time to check!
|Oct-13-09|| ||fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me|
|Oct-13-09|| ||A Karpov Fan: what is the lifetime score between Kramnik and Topalov?|
|Oct-13-09|| ||chrisowen: It purely revolves around the white king position. Black does the hustle, good game no con involved, Bc3+ just mugs him off.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||TheTamale: <fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>|
That was EXACTLY what happened to me. So at least you're not alone.
|Oct-13-09|| ||Patriot: Material: Black is down a piece for two pawns.
White threatens 39.exf7+ Kxf7 40.Qe7+ Kg8 41.Qe6+ and 42.Qxc8+, so black needs to at least meet this threat.
38...Bc3+ 39.Qxc3 a5+ 40.Kxa5/Kxb5 Qxc3
<<fyad reject>: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>
This puzzle uses one of the most common tactical themes: "removal of the guard" (also known as "deflection" but I would rather think of it in terms of removing the guard because that seems to describe it better).
I would say you are fully capable of solving puzzles like this, but lack the "weapons of chess" to do so effectively. You need to arm yourself with the tools needed for better success. Practice simple tactics, over and over, and the answers will become more and more obvious.
|Oct-13-09|| ||JG27Pyth: Quite a tangle those two have gotten themselves into.. |
<Is it me, or are this week's puzzles not as easy as the typical Monday and Tuesday offerings?>
it's not you! Speaking purely selfishly -- I like it -- my favorite puzzles are wed thurs fri -- if the difficulty gets averaged toward the middle a bit, fine by me.
This one was miss-able because it was so easy to fool around with the all the elements of the puzzle and reject them indiviudally, without finding the correct move order that lets them work together -- that and the fact that the position is complicated enough that until you've found the solution you can't be sure you're working on the right part of the position, perhaps theres some other idea to be had....
But I got it because a5 and then forking the Queen seemed so close there just had to be a way -- and for once I remembered to try changing the move order.
|Oct-13-09|| ||beenthere240: If the time control had not been reached and the players were still scrambling, 41. ef7+ might have been worth trying for a swindle, since the black king still has to worry about 2 bishops. For example 41..Kxf7
42. Bc4+ Kg7? [or f6]? 43. Bd4+ and black drops his queen.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||VincentL: This first move must be 38 exf7+
38.....Kxf7 39. Qe7+ Kg8 40 Qf6+ wins the black rook
38.....Kd8 39. Qe7 mate
38. Kd7 39. Qe7+ Kc6 40. Qd6+ Kb7 41. Qb6+ Ka8 42. Qa7 mate
|Oct-13-09|| ||VincentL: No !!! It's black to play !
Then it must be 38....Bc3+
39. Qxc3 a5+ and the white king must take one of the pawns (a4/b4) resulting in the loss of the queen.
This seems more like a puzzle.
|Oct-13-09|| ||jsheedy: 38...Bc3+, 39. QxB, a5+ wins the Queen after K takes a or b pawn.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||YouRang: I feel a little dumb about taking so long to see it. I mean, the first moves I looked at were the check moves: (1) a5+ and (2) Bc3+.|
So why did it take me so long to consider using them BOTH?!
|Oct-13-09|| ||mworld: < TheTamale: <fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>
That was EXACTLY what happened to me. So at least you're not alone.|
exact same here! Amazing how this is the case for a lot of us. I even decided a5 (first) was probably the right move because of the threat of losing the queen if white plays kxa5 ...if only i could have connected the dots and reorganized the move order. I can't believe i looked at bc3+ as well and still didn't connect the dots.
Its odd, but something about this position made it so hard to see this simple combination.
|Oct-13-09|| ||Patriot: For those wondering why you considered 38...Bc3+ and dismissed it quickly because of 39.Qxc3:|
This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet". It is failing to consider further checks, captures, and threats. An example is thinking QxQ wins a queen without seeing that on the next move, PxQ wins it back.
But I think the other issue is failing to see there's a "removal of the guard" after 39.Qxc3 (39...a5+). This tactic is one of the most common tactical themes and is worth it's weight in gold to practice.
|Oct-13-09|| ||YouRang: <Patriot><This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet".>|
I am myself an expert on this type of error. (Making them, that is.)
|Oct-13-09|| ||doubledrooks: Black wins material with 38...Bc3+ 39. Qxc3 a5+ (deflecting the king from protecting the queen) 40. Kxb5 Qxc3.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||gawain: Oh, a nice deflection. First the White queen will be lured into the vulnerable spot with Bc3+. She must capture. Then a5+ deflects the King away. The queen falls.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||playground player: Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first? Or is that too bloody obvious?|
|Oct-13-09|| ||Riverbeast: <Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first?>|
If ..a5 first, white plays Kxb5, and the king is dancing, bobbing, and weaving.....
And black would end up in last place
|Oct-13-09|| ||beenthere240: If black plays 38....a5+ first, white's king simply takes the b pawn and the fork evaporates. That's why the move order is critical.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||Marmot PFL: A Sicilian classic. Black (Kramnik) rejects the easy draw on move 26 and wins a brilliant game. A shame that he now plays mainly the Petroff.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||Check It Out: This one took me awhile. I noticed first the possibility of 38...Bc3+ but the square is double protected. Then I saw 38...a5+ but that seemed to fail to 39.Kxb5. Then I looked at 38...Rxc5 39.Kxc5 but couldn't spot any forcing continuations. Just before I gave up I thought, one more looksy. Then I saw it: Give the 38...Bc3+ then 39.Qxc3 a5+! and the queen is toast.|
|Oct-13-09|| ||muralman: My son got this one first rather quickly, after I discovered the bishop move. Pawns are powerful agents. I tend to forget that.|
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