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Alexandre Vladimirovich Sulypa vs Viktor Kupreichik
"Om Nom Nom" (game of the day Jul-12-2011)
Lvov (1989)
Sicilian Defense: Najdorf Variation (B90)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 35 times; par: 27 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqL7...
Jul-12-11  azax: It's not that often you see a Queen + Rook sack below your board. Sadly, this wasn't as extreme a sack as I had hoped.

Great game from White.

Jul-12-11  vsiva1: what about 21....rb8, probably, 22.RXf7 RXf7 23. exf7 Bd7. Black may not loose power.
Jul-12-11  ZeejDonnelly: Cool miniature. Black is just giving white too much time here. You can't give a GM that much time.

I don't care for the pun, and I urge <cg.com> to change Sulypa's first name to Oleksandr in the database. Go eastern Europe!

Jul-12-11  ZeejDonnelly: Also, black ruins his chances with 14... Nd7? Better would have been the simple, tension-breaking 14... d6xe5 15. f4xe5, and black is okay.
Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sastre: <vsiva1: what about 21....rb8, probably, 22.RXf7 RXf7 23. exf7 Bd7. Black may not loose power>

White is winning after 24.Ne8 Rxe8 25.fxe8Q+ Bxe8 26.Bxb6.

Jul-12-11  JohnBoy: <Zeej - I urge <cg.com> to change Sulypa's first name to Oleksandr in the database.> All of these names are approximate transcriptions from a different alphabet. I laugh (to myself) at names of students from former soviet republics - containing "yy" or "iiy". These are not english constructs and I feel no compulsion to surrender the way I speak. While we (in the english speaking "imperialist" west) were pressed to change Peking to Beijing and more recently Burma to Myanmar, do we ask France to use London instead of Londres? Does France ask Italy to use Paris instead of Parigi? Get over it.
Jul-12-11  ZeejDonnelly: <JohnBoy> I ask because that's the spelling on FIDE's website. I'm also American -- there's nothing for me to 'get over'.
Jul-12-11  jcaz6: What about 19...QxN; 20. NxQ+, Kh8? Doesn't that leave black materially even instead of down a piece the way it was actually played? It prevents having white's knight on c7, preventing the loss of the rook, and white's rook is still en prise after Kh8.

Am I missing something?

Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: What did the rich Tibetan Buddhist say?

"Om money paid my home"

That's awful because it's original.

Jul-12-11  jcaz6: I guess pawn takes black's knight on g3 after Kh8, leaving black down a minor piece still. Wild game.
Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Knights are playing Hoppity Hooper (anyone remember the cartoon?)
Jul-12-11  JohnBoy: <Zeej - I ask because that's the spelling on FIDE's website. > That makes some sense. But why is transcription of someone in maybe Hungary or Belgium more fitting than that of CG.com? Stick with the familiar unless either Sulypa requests a change or we find out how he spells his own name when writing in the roman alphabet. Even this latter may not be constant.
Jul-12-11  pferd: <vsiva1: what about 21....rb8, probably, 22.RXf7 RXf7 23. exf7 Bd7. Black may not loose power

Sastre: White is winning after 24.Ne8 Rxe8 25.fxe8Q+ Bxe8 26.Bxb6.>

After 21...Rb8 I like 22.Ng6+ hxg6 23.e7

Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <kevin86> Hoot! Poot! Who can forget?
Jul-12-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <icaz> In that line I think I would play 21. Rxf7 1-0
Jul-12-11  ColeTrane: . . . the onomatopeias of chess . . . chomp!
Jul-14-11  horseboat: <JohnBoy> CG.com uses Zsuzsa Polgar as opposed to the Anglicized "Susan", regardless of alphabetical differences. And Zeej has a point, FIDE does have his first name as Oleksandr. Oh, and <ZeejDonnelly>, motion seconded.
Jul-14-11  JohnBoy: <horseboat> - (1) Your example supports my position. Check out what alphabet is used in Hungary. There is no transcription. (2) I acknowledge that FIDE does it differently but claim that such is not definitive. (3) I am not about to hunt up the variety of spellings available using a roman alphabet for Efym, Wladimir, Botwinnik, Aljechin, etc.
Jul-15-11  horseboat: <JohnBoy> Neither are there different alphabets involved in London/Londres Paris?Parigi. And I doubt that Botvinnik's name being spelled Botwinnik or Kramnik's first name being given as Wladimir or Oleksandr/Alexandre (itself not the typical English form) would impose upon your time or force you to "hunt up [a] variety of spellings" any more than Kepreichik's first name being given as Viktor rather than Victor, or the lack of a famous tactical genius names Michael Tal.
Jul-15-11  JohnBoy: <horseboat> - Again you miss the point. This time by still further.

I can read these names and sound them out. As can you or Zeej. I just don't see any point in pressing CG to change to a FIDE spelling when there does not seem to be consensus on what an appropriate roman alphabet spelling is. I found several spellings of Korchnoi (Kortsnoj, for example) at FIDE. The fact that Zeej seemed to know that FIDE has a different spelling of Sulypa's first name, and you apparently felt compelled to check on this, hardly inspires me to hunt through the FIDE files for more familar examples where CG and FIDE diverge. BFD.

Hence... I like my proposal to "Stick with the familiar unless either Sulypa requests a change or we find out how he spells his own name when writing in the roman alphabet. Even this latter may not be constant." Maybe you missed this.

And, by the way, I'm sorry I left Tal off the list. I was merely trying to illustrate by example.

Jul-15-11  horseboat: <JohnBoy> The point is that you want Anglicized names rather than transliterated ones, but that's the guy's name. If John Carpenter were Yanni Carpenter, this would be -- rightfully -- found strange. The presence of several spellings of Korchnoi doesn't mean that the spelling used above isn't the consensus vote. While we're on the subject, I notice that your issues with using original rather than Anglicized forms, spellings, and conventions seems to apply only to first names, yet the players' last names present the same alphabetical issues, and there are those which have easy English equivalents (the common surname Szymanski could use your "English construct[s]" and become Simonson, for instance). And what is considered "the familiar", exactly? Alexander is certainly more familiar than Alexandre. You'd never refer to San Francisco with the English construct Saint Francis.

I'm well aware of the point, but it seems that you miss that, as you'd said, <I can read these names and sound them out. As can you or Zeej.> In that case, why not use the form most commonly used by FIDE? I doubt Sulypa spends sufficient time on here to request a change, but what's good enough for FIDE ought to be used here as well., and as you'd said, we can all tell what English name it equates to.

The issue with "the familiar" is that it's neither constant nor objective. Again, Mikhail isn't an English form, but it's accepted, as is Viktor, or Ioann. It all just seems a bit arbitrary on the part of CG, when it all comes down to it...

Jul-15-11  horseboat: Personally, I don't really give two figs one way or the other, but both Anglicizing and a more literal transliteration have good arguments to support them. I just feel it's a bit harsh to insist that the clear trend in academia and elsewhere towards more direct transliteration (Zedong replaces Tse-Tung, not a different alphabet but Vergil replaces Virgil) has no merit whatsoever. I mean, yeah, we use Rome not Roma, Moscow not Moskva, but we don't replace Sao Paolo with Saint Paul. Both approaches can be argued for perfectly well, the issue is the arbitrariness of deciding when one form is sufficiently "familiar" or "common" or such. This said, no bad blood, I trust...
Jul-15-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The idea of Anglicisation is reasonable, in my opinion, so long as the precepts of tradition and politeness are observed-if Korchnoi wishes his name spelt thus, why not give the man his due?

When Bogolyubov was a German national, his preference was, in the German fashion, 'Bogoljubow'. This is only what's right. If Korchnoi comes out tomorrow and avers, 'Henceforth, I wish to be known as Viktor Kortschnoi', why would anyone wish to do otherwise? It's his life.

Jul-17-11  JohnBoy: <horse> - I said what I meant. It is of course arbitrary - and I don't share your wish to conform to FIDE naming convention (such as it is) unless there is some larger reason. I have suggested several possibilities. Given names, family names, all the same. I would personally prefer that names not be Anglicized, and don't believe I have ever stated anything to the contrary.

Ciao (not chow) - I have better things to do than debate this any further.

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