chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
George Marshall Norman vs Andre Lilienthal
Hastings (1934/35), Hastings ENG, rd 4, Dec-31
Semi-Slav Defense: Main Lines (D45)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 649 more games of Lilienthal
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: To access more information about the players (more games, favorite openings, statistics, sometimes a biography and photograph), click their highlighted names at the top of this page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
Sep-11-04  mjk: 66.♔d6 and 68.♔e8 were not best defense, but should still lose. White strays from the fastest win as 69...♘e5 mates in 30. Finally 76...♘d5? 77.b4! lets White escape. <-- Nalimov Tablebase Server>

Maybe Lilienthal studied after this game, but he played out a draw in Smyslov vs Lilienthal, 1940

Jul-30-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: K+2N vs. K+P is a notoriously difficult game to win. I suspect Lilienthal knew he wasn't going to win that way, so he hoped to set up a blunder trap (diagram after 81...Kd7 - white to move):


click for larger view

Black is hoping for 82. b7??? Ne6#, but white didn't fall for it.

As <mjk> pointed out, black had a win. In fact, at move 75 he had mate-in-28 with 75...Kf6, but he played 75. Nf3? (mate-in-40), then gave up the win completely with 76...Nd5.

The winning technique in such a game is:

(1) Block the pawn with one knight.

(2) Use the other knight and king to force the opposing king into a corner. (The further advanced the pawn, the harder it is to find a corner and the right tempo that mates.) This is very difficult! The king and knight must do a very long and strange dance to work this out.

(3) At the right time (when the opposing king is sufficiently cornered), the knignt that was blocking the pawn approaches the cornered king with mating attack. This isn't quite as difficult as step 2, but it's riskier! If you time it wrong, the pawn may promote -- and then you lose!

Feb-08-09  WhiteRook48: 82. Kg7!! is one of the greatest drawing moves
Feb-07-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <YouRang: ... If you time it wrong, the pawn may promote -- and then you lose!>

Well, maybe. King and two well-placed knights can hold the draw against a queen. Weirdly, there seem to be no examples of that ending in the database, although there are nine endings with queen versus bishop and knight (the worst set of two minor pieces with which to oppose the queen). Endgame Explorer: Q vs BN

Feb-04-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <Well, maybe. King and two well-placed knights can hold the draw against a queen. Weirdly, there seem to be no examples of that ending in the database>

That is rather weird that there's no games ending with Q vs 2N.

And yes, reviewing the tablebase shows that there are lots of positions where the 2N can hold the draw. However, regardless of the forced outcome, it's not an easy task for either side. For example, the position below:


click for larger view

As white, you can force mate in 43 moves -- but only if you find Qe2!

Feb-15-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <YouRang> Queen against two knights is apparently quite rare. CG.com's Endgame Explorer specifies that the pieces must remain on the board for three moves (six ply) for the endgame to be counted. This avoids scooping up, for example, (1) the conclusion of NN v. P endings where the pawn queens and then the other side immediately mates, or (2) the pawn queens and a knight captures it, or (3) more complicated endings where the queen sacrifices itself to produce a drawn NN ending (for example, I saw a game with Q v. RNN where the side with the queen sacrificed the queen with QxR+ to avoid the risk of loss). I found only five games in Mega Database 2013 with Q v. NN that meet the 3 moves/6 ply criterion. As I recall, there are about 5.5 million games in that database, so it's literally a one-in-a-million type phenomenon.
Sep-06-19  Chesgambit: 63. Nb4 -+ winning position
two knight versus pawn

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
NN vs P
from Endgame Studies by FENfiend
senakash's favorite games part 2
by senakash
A classic missed opportunity (in Fine's Basic Chess Endings)
from Semi-Slavaks Found Fredthebear Def D40s by fredthebear
Round 4 (Monday, December 31)
from Hastings 1934/35 by Phony Benoni
A classic missed opportunity (in Fine's Basic Chess Endings)
from NN vs P: unheard melodies by David2009
Tricky K+2N vs. K+P endgame - drawn when "trick" fails
from Games analyzed by YouRang by YouRang
Two Knights versus Pawn
by Resignation Trap
Boriescu - bastrikova
from Voraces 2019 by Enjoy live
Black's 62nd, White's 63rd, Black's 76th
from Annotated by Tablebase by Judah

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC