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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Dec-09-21 | | stacase: Yeah, the first three moves because it's a puzzle, then what? Needless to say, I didn't come up with 15...a6. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | mel gibson: I saw that straight away.
However there was not a quick mate.
Stockfish 14 says:
12... dxe3
(12. .. dxe3
(d4xe3 f2xe3 ♕d8-e7 ♖d1-d5 f7-f6 g2-g3 ♘c6xe5 ♗f1-g2 c7-c6 ♘f3-h4 ♗f5-g4
♖d5-d4 ♘e4-c5 ♕a4-c2 a7-a5 b2-b4 a5xb4 a3xb4 g7-g5 O-O g5xh4 b4xc5 h4-h3
♗g2-e4 f6-f5 ♗e4-d3 ♘e5-g6 ♕c2-c1 ♖a8-d8 ♖d4-d6 ♕e7-e5 ♖f1-f2 ♖d8-e8 ♖d6-d4
♕e5-e7 ♖d4-d6 ♕e7xe3 ♕c1xe3 ♖e8xe3 ♖d6-d7) +8.01/37 180) score for Black +8.01 depth 37. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | landshark: 15... a6 is a hard move to spot when entering this sequence - I had in mind the immediate ... Nc5, which I realize upon getting there leaves B needing to defend the night with b6 following White's 16.Qb5 - Probably allows White some sort of way out... |
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Dec-09-21
 | | HeMateMe: A Gerusem discovery. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: The first three moves were obvious, and promising enough to try even though I couldn't see what came next. Once those three were played, I quickly saw that the engine's preferred move of 15 ... Nc5 was appealing as a near queen-trap. But I didn't continue long enough to see how devastating the threat of ... Nb3+ is. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | drollere: i got as far as 12. .. dxe3, 13. Rxd8 exf2+, 14. Kd1 Rfxd8+, 15. Kc1 but didn't see the continuation, which requires 15. .. a6 to remove the only Q flight square after Nc5. the N fork that makes 18. Qxa5 unplayable was a nice insight. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Dezaxa: 15 ... Nc5 immediately is fine. After 16 Qb5 Black can still play Na5. Neither knight can be captured because of the fork at b3. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | saturn2: It reminds of Karpov's game with the safety pin pun. |
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Dec-09-21
 | | Teyss: A Puzzle, But Not an Easy Puzzle. As others, didn't see 15.a6 trapping of the WQ, thought it could escape via b3 or c2. Yes c2, looks a bit crazy to put it on the B diagonal but then the win is not trivial even though Black has a large advantage. Will look at agb2002's solution as always to assess complexity. |
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Dec-09-21
 | | Dionysius1: 15...a6 and the lively dance (gavotte?) of the knights is nice, but beyond my event horizon. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Lambda: Saw the first three moves, also saw that 15...Nc5 16.Qb5 Na5 could be played, but wasn't quite sure what happens after 17.Nd2. In the end, it turns out that 17...Rxd2 18. Kxd2 Nab3+ and 19... a5 imprison the queen and it gets picked up by Bd7. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | parch: I had 12...de3 13.R:d8 ef2+ 14.Kd1 Rad1+ 15.Kc1
(15.Kc2 Nc5+ )
Went to attack his missus ...Nc5, White has the b5 square, so
15...a6 16.Qc2
Looked at 16...Nc5 17.Q:f5 Nb3+18.Kb1 (18.Kc2 Nbd4+ wins )...Rd1+
stuck on 19.Kc2 |
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| Dec-09-21 | | parch: On 19.Ka2
(19.Kc2 R:f1! 20.R:f1 Nbd4+ 21.N:d4 N:d4+ )
19...Nca5 20.Qb1 Nc1+ wins |
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Dec-09-21
 | | chrisowen: Remedial v i out dxe3 flubb abattoir it blav i flush it aef off axiom jaffa it i vint v remedial v i out kat pat bap banshee v hic clinch quality v goya it wren it ram fume it dj v kap tim a v no ducky lab v grubs it where v it glow worm it a rod etc v i crews it fee c v it second vam gab hog hoof it give it iota v ivory accomodate jacky a flush photon beam v it buccaneer it watch ago quiff o paced it rag head dal an no mc i jap chex it c hog dank it o gg tensions aka it each oomph a pebble vid bubbled it jah v deer it sh hone it v chex it zilch cluck fetch a day bade it be muff v belch it mo delicate lit wag it i vin scud free it label v ivory gg hid c hide it fags crude it a bug vem fees lights out claw it in culled it i v fa gm clammy bade it grubbed it fridge vin yeah lab ok bald it exec i gashmate i v bandy clash so as ar it long v i nod one hot potato nosh at ie please liv earl grey toe lit c x victory revise it e3 bomb no ar it dxe3 cuff; |
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| Dec-09-21 | | parch: Move 14...in my first post, should read 14...Ra:d8+ |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Tiggler: I was convinced that 12... Nc5 would win on the spot. But the white queen can wriggle out: 12...Nc5 13. Qb5 Qe7 14. Bg5 f6 15. exf6 gxf6 16. b4 |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Brenin: <Tiggler>: After 12 ... Nc5 the White Q may wriggle out trouble with 13 Qb5 Qe7 14 Bg5 f6 15 exf6 gxf6 16 b4, but then 16 ... Nd3+ wins material and a significant advantage for Black. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | johnnydeep: I saw this quickly up to 14...Rfxd8+ but wasn't sure what black should do after that. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Stanco: I went for the same line but had in mind 15...Nc5 and 16...b6 since the 16.Qb5 is forced
12...dxe3 13.Rxd8 exf2+ 14.Kd1 Rfxd8+ 15.Kc1 Nc5! 16.Qb5 b6! (17.Qxc6? Nb3#)
possible continuation is 17.b4 but black is lost anyway i.e. 17...Nb3+ 18.Kb2 Nbd4 19.Nxd4 Nxd4 20.Qa6 Nxe2 21.Bxe2 Rd2+ etc... |
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| Dec-09-21 | | raymondhow: < Dezaxa: 15 ... Nc5 immediately is fine. After 16 Qb5 Black can still play Na5. Neither knight can be captured because of the fork at b3. > That's what I saw too, and the engine says it's a winner. Whether I would've found the correct subsequent moves is another question. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | agb2002: Black has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. White threatens Bxd4.
If Black's a-pawn were on a6 the combination 12... dxe3 13.Rxd8 exf2+ 14.Kd1 Rfxd8+ 15.Kc1 Nc5 would win decisive material because the white queen is trapped. This suggests 15... a6 (instead of 15... Nc5):
A) 16.Qc2 Ng3 wins decisive material.
B) 16.b4 Rd7
B.1) 17.e3 Rad8
B.1.a) 18.Be2 Nc3 wins decisive material.
B.1.b) 18.Nd4 Nxd4 19.exd4 Rxd4 looks good for Black. B.2) 17.b5 Nc5 wins the queen.
C) 16.Qb3 Nc5
C.1) 17.Qc3 Na5
C.1.a) 18.Nd2 Rxd2 wins decisive material (19.Kxd2 Ne4+; 19.Qxd2 Nab3+; 19.Qxa5 Nb3+). C.1.b) 18.Qxa5 Nb3#.
C.1.c) 18.b4 Nab3+ 19.Kb2 Na4+ wins decisive material. C.2) 17.Qe3 Na5 looks similar to C.1 (17.Qxc5 Nb3#; 17.Nd2 Rxd2). C.3) 17.Qa2 Na5 18.Nd2 Rd7, followed by Rad8 looks very good for Black. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | agb2002: An interesting example of puzzle with clear tactical motifs (exposed king, knight mate and forks, queen trap) but not easy (at least to me) to compose a clear solution with them. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | Brenin: <agb2002>: After 15 ... a6 16 b4 (your line B), perhaps 16 ... a5 is worth considering as an alternative to Rd7. While Black's Rs are still connected, 17 ... axb4 is a threat. If 17 b5 then Nc5 wins the Q, and if 17 bxa5 then Rxa5 brings another Black piece into the Q-chase. |
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| Dec-09-21 | | agb2002: <Brenin: <agb2002>: After 15 ... a6 16 b4 (your line B), perhaps 16 ... a5 is worth considering as an alternative to Rd7. While Black's Rs are still connected, 17 ... axb4 is a threat. If 17 b5 then Nc5 wins the Q, and if 17 bxa5 then Rxa5 brings another Black piece into the Q-chase.> I spent some time trying to make 15... Nc5 work and considered 16... b6 and 16... Na5 after 16.Qb5 but they looked rather unclear to me so I turned to 15... a6 which seemed to be more promising. In this situation to reply to 16.b4 with 16... a5 was psychologically unlikely, I suspect, so I didn't even consider it. |
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Sep-07-22
 | | FSR: <chrisowen: Remedial v i out dxe3 flubb abattoir it blav i flush it aef off axiom jaffa it i vint v remedial v i out kat pat bap banshee v hic clinch quality v goya it wren it ram fume it dj v kap tim a v no ducky lab v grubs it where v it glow worm it a rod etc v i crews it fee c v it second vam gab hog hoof it give it iota v ivory accomodate jacky a flush photon beam v it buccaneer it watch ago quiff o paced it rag head dal an no mc i jap chex it c hog dank it o gg tensions aka it each oomph a pebble vid bubbled it jah v deer it sh hone it v chex it zilch cluck fetch a day bade it be muff v belch it mo delicate lit wag it i vin scud free it label v ivory gg hid c hide it fags crude it a bug vem fees lights out claw it in culled it i v fa gm clammy bade it grubbed it fridge vin yeah lab ok bald it exec i gashmate i v bandy clash so as ar it long v i nod one hot potato nosh at ie please liv earl grey toe lit c x victory revise it e3 bomb no ar it dxe3 cuff;> Precisely. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 12...dxe3