Jul-24-04
 | | offramp: In symmetrical positions like the one after 15 Bb1 you should always be the first to offer the exchange of knoight; it reduces the defenders of the opponent's k-side and increases the scope of the bishops. Schlechter should have played 15...Ne5.
Instead, Marshall got in first. He was no fool. have you seen his score against the Schlechter, the draw-king? Both sides made some mistakes in this game. A curious one is 20.Ba2+; just Ng5 is better. |
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| Jul-24-04 | | Calli: Marshall's 23.h4!! is great. If 23...Qxh4 24.Bxg7+! mates |
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Jul-24-04
 | | Gypsy: Hey <Calli>, this one is a bit slippery for me. I can not see an immediate mate in one of the branchess--23...Qxh4 24.Bxg7+ Kxg7 25.Qb2 Kf8 26.Qh8+ Ke7 27.Re6+ Kd7 28.Qg7+ <Qe7> 29.Rxe7 Nxe7--and although I have no doubts about White victory, I do not see an immediate checkmate. (Of course, White has other was to go, but there always seems to be a gotcha.) |
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| Jul-24-04 | | Calli: <Gypsy> Okay here's the whole thing. 23...Qxh4 24.Bxg7+! Kxg7 25.Qb2+ Kf8 26.Rcxc6! (removing the knight from guarding e7 is key. Now he threatens 27.Qh8+ Ke7 28.Qg7+ Ke8 29.Qf7#) 26... Bxc6 27.Rf6+! (or similar is 27.Qh8+ Ke7 28.Re6+ Kf7 29.Rf6+ Ke7 30.Qg7+ Ke8 31.Rf8#) 27...Kg7 28.Rf7+ Kh6 29.Qg7+ Kh5 30.Rxf5+ Qg5 31.Qxg5# I actually remembered this game, but only that bxg7 was the combo. Its a good exercise re-constructing a great combination. Too bad it was only in the notes. |
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Jul-24-04
| | Gypsy: Thanks. I was a bit lazy to look at less-forcing lines much. A realy pretty encircling comes after 26.Rcxc6 Rxc6 27.Qh8+ Ke7 28.Qxd8#. The lines after 26.Rcxc6 Rxd6 are more clunky, but all is there. |
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| Jul-24-04 | | Calli: 26.Rcxc6 Rxd6 27.Qh8+ Ke7 28.Qg7 Ke8 29.Qf7+ Kd8 Rxd6# is okay by me :-) |
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Jul-25-04
| | offramp: This game is very similar to Rotlewi vs Rubinstein, 1907. |
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Jul-25-04
| | Gypsy: < Calli: 26.Rcxc6 Rxd6 27.Qh8+ ... 30.Rxd6# is okay by me :-) > Well it is a good day's work, I aggree. :-) Btw, thanks again for pointing out the 26.Rcxc6! move. |
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Jul-25-04
| | Gypsy: Yes <offramp>, the quick, almost breazy collapse from (near) symmetric structure makes it so, I presume. I think you pinpointed the culprit exactly in your earlier post: The key to the game was to get in the Ne4 (Ne5) first. |
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| Jul-26-04 | | Calli: Tarrasch says the mistake is 19...e4? Correct is 19...Bb8! according to Herr Docktor. Marshall produced another brilliancy against Schlechter in the same Tournament. Marshall vs Schlechter, 1907 |
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Jul-26-04
| | Gypsy: It realy is fun to compare Rotlewi vs Rubinstein, 1907 and this game. The positions are, with reverse collors, virtually identical after the 20-21 moves here and 19-20 moves in the Rubinstein game. The only significant difference is that Schlechter has an extra useful tempo (Rc8) as compared to Rotlewi. (The small difference in the position of bishops on a2 and b6 is irrelevant.) The 19...e4? is the same error here as
18.e5? was in Rotlewi-Rubinstein. (I am plesed to brag that I am in full agreement with her Docktor as I can prove it by my own comments to the Ruby Game! :-)) But even with the extra tempo (Rc8) and without the eroneous 19...e4?, Black has a very difficult game to play. White seized the initiative with his timely Ne4 (<offramp>'s key point) and Black is making structural concesions to blunt the scope of the white bishops. |
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| Jul-26-04 | | Calli: Schlechter avoided the main sacrificial line (Bxg7) and thus the combo here is mainly in the notes. Marshall needed a slightly weaker opponent for an "immortal" game! After tarrasch's 19...Bb8! (removes the Bishop from Rxd6 combos and eliminates Ng4 for white), Black threatens e4, f4. It seems White should prevent this with e4, but that looks equal to me 20.e4 Nd4 21.Nxd4 Rxc1 22.Rxc1 exd4= Any alternative to 20.e4? |
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Jul-26-04
| | Gypsy: Since the pawns f5/e5 shield the weaknesses of Black K-side, I would not worry about them moving forward much. If they move they open up the lines to the K-side, if they stay, they are a hanging target. Because White pawns are all back and because of the knight on f3, White K-side is safer than Black's. Three things to keep in mind by White are as follows: (1) keep own the back rank safe; (2) try double rooks on the d-file and push to 7-th; or (3) lift the rooks to 5-th and push sidewise on the pawns and, later, onto Black K-side. This suggests the moves h3, Rd2, and/or Rc5. For thematic purposes, I would look at variations such as 20.Rc5 f4 21.Ba2+ Kh8 22.exf4 exf4 (if 22...Rxf4 then maybe 23.Re1) 23.Qxe7 Nxf7 and 20.Rc5 Ba6 21.Ba2+ Kh8 22.Rd5 (or even 22.Rxe5 Nxd5 23.Nxd5), where I like White chances. Also the 20.Rd2 move looks safe and promissing. Overall, it looks like Black has quite bit of work to do holding things together. |
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| Jul-26-04 | | Calli: <gypsy> All good points. My feeling is that Black should remain agressive with e4. On 19...Bb8 20.Rc5 e4 21.Nd4 Nxd4 22.Bxd4 Qg5! (guards g7 and also attacks) Black has counterplay, IMHO. |
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Jul-27-04
| | Gypsy: Certainly <Calli>. My favoring White a bit here is primarily rooted in being a counterpuncher by nature. In your line, I would insert the check, 19...Bb8 20.Rc5 e4 <21.Ba2+ Kh8> 22.Nd4 Nxd4 23.Bxd4 Qg5 24.g3, but the assets and liabilities of both positions probably ballance out. I would not realy mind playing either side. It is amazing how much that one extra tempo (Rac8) makes in this structure. Rotlewi did not have the Bb1 recourse; he would have
blocked his Ra1 in. |
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| Jul-27-04 | | Calli: <Gypsy> Very good point on the extra tempo. I just noticed on the other Marshall-Schlechter game (see link below), the key move is again Rxc6.
All three games in 1907! |
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Jul-27-04
| | Gypsy: I finally got to the other Marshall-Schlechter game from Ostende <Calli>. I am now becoming a rabid Marshall fan. Ostende Grandmaster Tournament, 1907:
1. Tarrash(12.5/20) 2.Schlechter(12) 3-4.Marshall and Janowski(11.5) 5.Burn(8) and 6.ailing Chigorin(4.5). Ostende Master Tournament, 1907:
1-2.Bernstein and Rubinstein(19.5/28) 3-4.Mieses and Nimzowich 5.Forgacs 6.Teichmann 7.Duras 8.Salve 9.Marco 10-11.John and Tartakower 12-14.E.Cohn Znosko-Borovski and Spielmann 15.Blackburne ... (famous names out of prize money included Leonhardt, W.Cohn, Perlis, Swiderski, Suchting) Ostende Main I:
1. Heilmann 2.Rotlewi ... |
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| Jul-27-04 | | Calli: Its interesting that St. Peterburg 1914 often gets credit for the term "grandmaster" when it waw already used at Oostend in 1907. Ceosstable for the GM section:
http://pages.infinit.net/tarrasch/O... |
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| Apr-25-07 | | Archives: Wow this is a very interesting game - having alot in common with Rotlewi vs Rubinstein, 1907 I wonder if Rubinstein was familiar with this game when he played that game against Rotlewi. After all, Rubinstein was in the Ostend tournament in which this game was played in. |
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| Nov-11-10 | | sevenseaman: No non-sense Marshall lays down the law! |
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Kibitzing
