< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Jan-01-12|| ||morfishine: <LoveThatJoker> On your comment <I must respectfully say that there is no way that you "saw" the sidelines, but did not care to write them down> You are correct. There is no way I saw "all" the sidelines. I should've been more specific: I was satisfied that <18.e5> was the first move and that <18...dxe5> was best for Black. The "sidelines" I was referring to stem from that continuation. |
For example, I saw that after <21...Ne4> (following the actual game-score starting with 18.e5 dxe5) <22.Bd5> is the only way to close the d-file to prevent 22.Nxf6 mate. To me this falls into the category of a "no-brainer" which allows the instantaneous 22...Rxd5.
New Year's Resolution: Be Specific
Nice work and great way to start off the Year! :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||gofer: The pawn push seems to be a good way to go. It threatens exf6+ and exd6+, so cannot be ignored. If it is taken white plays Qc5+ and then Rxf6
at which point Ne4 seems to be very strong!
<18 e5 ...>
18 ... dxe5 19 Qc5+ Ke8 20 Rxf6! gxf6 21 Ne4 Bd5 22 Rxd5!
<18 ... Ne8>
<19 exd6+ ...>
19 ... Qxd6 20 Qh4+ g5 21 Rxd6 gxh4 22 Rxc6
<19 ... Nxd6>
At this stage white could simply win a pawn with Qxg7, but equally could pin the knight with Qc5. I have looked at both lines and find
nothing conclusive, so I have given up... ...only to see that Black never played Ne8! Silly-billy...
<Happy New Year All!>
|Jan-01-12|| ||morfishine: <LoveThatJoker> Why don't we continue this discussion over at my forum? I think it would be beneficial to discuss such topics as (1) What constitutes getting a POTD right, partially-right or not-at-all (2) Analysts motivations (3) Analysts styles (4) Solver's solution or Solver's solutions? (5) Alternative lines (6) "Line-Busting"|
I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve in the area of analysis. :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 18.e5. (If takes, Qc5+, bash on f6 and then Ne4. ) Don't even need Fritz for this one. |
I have a couple of books of Nezh's games, probably seen this somewhere before.
IMO, not really an "insane" puzzle, not like some Sunday's, when I am only guessing, and not analyzing. However, thanks to the CG staff for an entertaining puzzle.
Happy New Year everyone!!! :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||WannaBe: <<<ANNOUNCEMENT>>> |
The Annual Caissar Award is now open for Nominee submission (boy, that don't sound very 'family oriented'... =)
Here are the categories, you don't have to nominate in every category:
<Best Avatar>, <Best Profile>, <Best Game Collection>, <Best Historian>, <
Best Username/Handle>, <Best Written Post>, <Funniest Kibitzer>, <Most Constructive>, <Best Informed>, <Most Helpful>, <Best Analysis>
Please, <<Post your nomination(s) in my forum, Click on the Wabbit Avatar>>. For I am too lazy to run all over the place to collect them.
Nomination will end on Sunday, Jan. 8th, 11:59PM, Eastern Time Zone.
|Jan-01-12|| ||Ratt Boy: First time I've ever gotten a Saturday and a Sunday in a row. It's nice of ChessGames to throw in a couple of easy ones for the Noo Year, to try to convince this old patzer that he knows something about the game, butt you can't BS a BSer.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||chrisowen: Opening dfile looks essential I combed over baddest milk |
fudger rf6 and nd5 on two turn stable equality and plus for
black so goes off 18.e5! queen gest assured entrance point
after dxe c5+ ke8 rxf6 gxf6 ne4.
|Jan-01-12|| ||chrisowen: Yet have been swept away it is in by good analysis proved that |
I was right. Lots of high brow I felt the look in sweeping e6
lot should prove decisive. Rashid must have had bean to pick
with Sergievsky I plead the case d6 too slow allowing Russian
IM chance for capitalising his gains gains thinking be6 also
bad. Ne8 proves stiffer resistance.
Happy New Year!
|Jan-01-12|| ||agb2002: This puzzle looks familiar.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||maxi: This game reminds me of Tal vs Tringov, 1964, played two years before.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||Patriot: I tried to quickly solve this and failed. My candidates included 18.Rxf6, 18.e5, and 18.Nd5+.|
The one that is least likely to succeed--18.Nd5+, since there are multiple ways of capturing the knight.
After 18.e5, I thought simply 18...dxe5 and then what? How about a check? This is a case of not giving a strong candidate a fair chance. My goal is to look at least 3-ply to see if forcing candidates still exist (check, captures, or threats). If there wasn't a forcing candidate after 18...dxe5 then I would be right to dismiss it quickly.
I settled on 18.Rxf6. It's an interesting candidate since first of all, it's a capture, and second it offers another threat in the sequence: 18...gxf6 19.Rf1. But that's not why I settled on it. The odd 19.Nd5+ is why but I only counted on 19...cxd5 (there is also 19...Bxd5). 19...cxd5 is the first move to consider as the strongest since it may just be winning a piece for nothing. So 20.cxd5 Bd7 or 20...Bc8 followed by 21.Rf1. It's kind of interesting but white has to prove he is getting compensation for a piece and the exchange and I don't think he is.
To say the least, it is very clumsy analysis.
|Jan-01-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Material is even, with white having the better development (centralized Q and both rooks on semi-open files) and safer king position. Black's king, caught in the middle, is the target. General principles are a good guide in positions like this. With a mobility advantage and a vulnerable king to work against, it will pay white to open lines. Another consideration is the color of the defending bishop - dark square weakness is evident at d6 and the a3-f8 diagonal. After quickly coming up with e5 and Rxf6 as feasible candidates, I decided on |
The natural move is best. Tactically flawed is 18.Rxf6?? gxf6 19.Rf1 Qa7.
A) 18... dxe5 19.Qc5+ Ke8 20.Rxf6! gxf6 21.Ne4! Qe7 (Bd5 21.Rxd5 wins) 22.Qxc6+ wins (LPDO @ a8).
A.1) 21... Bd7 22.Nxf6+ wins
A.2) 21... Qa7 (and most other) 22.Nxf6#
B) 18... Nd5 19.exd6+ Qxd6 20.Ne4! Qc7 (or b8/d7/d8) 21.Qc5+ Ke8 (or d7/d8) 22.c4 wins a piece (N moves 23.Nf6#)
B.1) 19... Kxd6 20.Ne4+ Ke7 (Kd7 21.c4 wins piece) 21.Qc5+ K moves 22.c4 is similar to main line.
C) 18... Ne8 (best) 19.ed6+ Qxd6 20.Qh4+ g5 21.Rxd6 gxh4 22.Rxc6 and white is effectively 2 pawns ahead with more active pieces.
C.1) 19... Nxd6 20.Qxg7 Rag8 (to connect rooks) 21.Qf6+ Ke8 (Kf8? 22.Qxe6) 22.Bh5 Qe7 23.Qe5 Nc8 (Rg5 24.Qxh8+) 24.Ne4 Kf8 25.Nf6! Rg5 26.Nd7+ followed by Qxh8+ wins.
In C.1, 20.Qc5 pinning the knight also looks strong, but Qxg7 wins a pawn and further weakens the king's shelter at no risk.
Time for review....
|Jan-01-12|| ||vajeer: <CHESSTTCAMPS:>
18....Ne8 certainly appears to be Black's best move. In your line C1
after 19. exd6+ Nxd6
Black can play 20...Nf5
and white has only 21 Qg4 to save the Queen upon which 21...Ne3 wins the exchange for Black.
I am not sure how white can get decisive advantage in all the Ne8 lines.
|Jan-01-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <morfishine> And that's where the variations after 18. e5 play a huge importance, man!|
18. e5 dxe5 is not as strong as 18. e5 Ne8. Trust me. 18...Ne8 is Black's best try!
That being said, that doesn't excuse the fact that I missed the game continuation!
|Jan-01-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: < <morfishine> <LoveThatJoker> Why don't we continue this discussion over at my forum? I think it would be beneficial to discuss such topics as (1) What constitutes getting a POTD right, partially-right or not-at-all (2) Analysts motivations (3) Analysts styles (4) Solver's solution or Solver's solutions? (5) Alternative lines (6) "Line-Busting"
I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve in the area of analysis. :)>|
Well said, morfishine! I also feel kinship with what you've said! I will most definitely go to your forum and join in with you on these topics that you have brought up. I will pop in on Tuesday to say hi at your Forum.
|Jan-01-12|| ||BOSTER: First what attracts my attention was the white pawn structure.|
Note the economic expens of pawn material by white.
Certainly this structure reminds the famous game Morphy vs Duke of Braunshweig and company.
This is Bronstein's opinion:
"During many years all the best players in the world have measured and evaluated their creative efforts against this standart by Morphy".
Everybody has own opinion about a <beaty, and brilliance>.
<Dr.J> <For a sunday,this was straightforward logic. There was <NO> real brilliance>.
My opinion that <POTD> radiates the such sabtle beauty, that even the solution is not very difficult, I'd not say <there was no real brilliance>.
But everything is a matter of taste.
Happy New Year!
|Jan-01-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Play the puzzle position against Crafty from using the following link: |
18....Ne8 certainly appears to be Black's best move. In your line C1 after 19. exd6+ Nxd6
Black can play 20...Nf5
and white has only 21 Qg4 to save the Queen upon which 21...Ne3 wins the exchange for Black >
20....Nf5 is a good suggestion that I did not consider. Your last point is not quite right though, after 21... Ne3, white has 22.Qh4+.
In any case, Crafty goes straight into my main line C. Good luck and have fun!
|Jan-01-12|| ||TheBish: Nezhmetdinov vs V Sergievsky, 1966|
White to play (18.?) "Insane"
The only thing that makes sense is 18. e5! and now:
A) 18...Ne8 19. exd6+ Qxd6 (or 19...Nxd6 20. Qxg7 wins a pawn) 20. Qh4+ g5 21. Rxd6 gxh4 22. Rxc6 with a winning endgame (passed c-pawn).
B) 18...dxe5 19. Qc5+ Ke8 20. Rxf6! gxf6 21. Ne4 Qe7 (forced) 22. Qxc6+, winning.
Not too insane after all!
|Jan-01-12|| ||stacase: <Once> Thanks for the explanation. I saw some of that, and I realized that not every line led to a immediate mate. Loss of material does win games, but as the swindle by Black a few days ago illustrated, it isn't necessarily so. If this were my game to win, I'd be feeling my way rather than confidently forcing Black's defeat.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||stst: The most effective move is not hard to find, but the subsequent line is not easy to chart out the details.
18.e5 will put Bk in a very awkward position, leaving dxe5 the only choice (for any other move will give 19.exf6+ and eventually fxg7 to promote.)
Almost from 20 on it's a matter of taste for W, and Bk's position is cramped.
|Jan-02-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 18.?
Equaql both sides
e5 kept drawing my attention, yet I tried Rxf6 as well, the latter did not coonstitute any sound results and it goes as follows:
White has gone up by two pawns but no win yet. I would say position of white is better by 29.Bf3 followed by Bxc6+
White has now a definite advantage in materials and wins and it is time to check after long study
My e5 line is correct and it seems to me that Black resigned too early
|Jan-02-12|| ||gofer: <M.Hassan> have you any idea why no one seems to be looking at <18 ... Ne8>? <LTJ> seems the only one mentioning it...|
|Jan-02-12|| ||sevenseaman: <Dr.J> <Nothing at all,and in fact that is basically the win given by the esteemed Honza Cervenka 8 years ago.>|
Thanks for pointing out <Honza Cervanka> had a similar solution of 8 years ago. Till now I thought I was the inventor of this line.
Compared to this brief approach other lines are a bit of a 'beating about the bush'.
|Jan-02-12|| ||sevenseaman: <M.Hassan> I was perusing your <18. Rxf6> line. Very nice. I had a similar idea at first sight but did not pursue it as the <18. e5> line came good.|
You left it one move too early. <29. Bh5> and Black is bearded w/o any escape response. f7 is bombed to extinction, White threatens <30. Rxe6+>. Black Q cannot help. <29...Rf8> is useless, <29...Rh7> is met by <30. Bg6>. What do you say?
Brave man you went flawlessly and came away when the door was about to open. In my eyes it is 9/10 for a gutsy effort.
|Jul-28-19|| ||Bobo2002: Bueno, alguna vez, un juego fácil para Ntz, ganó sin despeinarse, cuando faltaba poco, para el término de su carrera, (y de su vida) pero, éste juego, tiene olor a laboratorio casero, y no lo critico, Netz, tenía derecho. Después de todo, un aprendizaje para el espectador o estudiante. Agradezcámosle a Netz.|
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