< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Feb-01-08|| ||Vicao: <jheiner> I first looked at Rd8+ Rxd8 Qxd8+ Kh7 when I wanted to play Qf8, threatening mate at g7, or capturing at f7 with check. However black can reply Qxf6+ which leaves white with nothing.|
I then looked at Nd8 (which is a useless move) but which also made clear to me that black can make at least a draw here by checking with the queen at e5, a5 and e1.
I thought that was annoying, so there I started looking at Rd4, after which I managed to solve it.
|Feb-01-08|| ||DarthStapler: Funny, I was thinking Nd8 Bh5 Nxe6 (fxe6 Qg7 mate)|
|Feb-01-08|| ||johnlspouge: <dzechiel: "I listed my candidate moves in the order that they came to me">|
I do the same, which gives you some idea of why I did not find the solution easily.
<jheiner: Rd4 never entered the list. What is the thought process that people go through for generating the list. Is it purely left to right legal moves. I find it suspect that the first move on <dzechiel>s list just happened to be the right move.>
For me, the candidate list is the "creative" part of the process. If I get desperate, I start looking at all aggressive legal moves. I suspect experience dictates why certain candidates are attractive to people.
<Manic: I would not be surprised if most people in any situation (even in a real game) looked first at 37.Rd4, because it attacks the queen and puts the bishop under pressure. <dzechiel's> honesty has been questioned every now and then by kibitzers on the site. However, most CG members including me do not doubt him at all.>
Once I got to the candidate 37.Rd4, I knew it was the right one. It improves the position of the Rd3 by attacking the Bg4, and it surrenders nothing. You can make the move and then start looking seriously at the position.
I do not question <dzechiel>'s honesty. If you follow his posts, which have patterns of success and failure, you see a consistent human thought process. (That is why his posts are valuable.) As an example, you see rapidly that he does not calculate as much as I do, but he has much better positional intuition.
|Feb-01-08|| ||JG27Pyth: Omg it took me a solid, focused, 90 minutes of pure thought to find Rd4! but I found it...then I miscalculated the continuation with Qd7 instead of Qb4 (which I looked at, said to myself, oh yeah that looks obviously winning and promptly forgot about while I convinced myself I'd found a forcing line that mated or won a full rook with Qd7... Arrrggghhh!!!!!) |
As for this --
<Dzechiel: The first thing I would like to look at is something to the effect of 37 Rd4 followed by 38 Qb4. [snip]
Honestly, I think I must have overlooked something, as this was too easy for a Friday.>
Oh, I believe you Dzechiel! But that doesn't quell my seething soul-searing bitterness and rage ;)
Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): Go... go my pretty... go... seek him... find him... and _poison his sleep_...AWAY! AWAY! *Flash, Purple smoke* ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...
|Feb-01-08|| ||buzzymind: <dzechiel>,
After 37. ♖d4 ♕f3 38. ♕b4 and now if
38. ♖xc6 39. ♕f8+ appears to be quicker to me.
|Feb-01-08|| ||dzechiel: <Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...>|
OK, this got me to laugh out loud. :D
|Feb-01-08|| ||MaxxLange: I missed this completely. 37. Rd4 sets up a very nice double attack with 38. Qb4, and does it with tempo.|
Note to self: don't mess with John Nunn.
|Feb-01-08|| ||dzechiel: <buzzymind: <dzechiel>, After 37. Rd4 Qf3 38. Qb4 and now if 38. Rxc6 39. Qf8+ appears to be quicker to me.>|
Excellent! The queen sac IS much faster. Very good, we will have to keep an eye on you. :)
|Feb-01-08|| ||johnlspouge: <buzzymind: After 37.Rd4 Qf3 38.Qb4 and now if 38.Rxc6 39.Qf8+.>|
This variation is among my myriad calculations. Perhaps ironically, it was this finish that led me to find 38.Qb4. I wanted the Qe7 to remain in contact with f8.
|Feb-01-08|| ||Jimfromprovidence: So, if 36 Nc3! is winning as <MAJ> and others have pointed out, what, if anything, could black have done differently on move 35?|
It looks like 35...Qe5 works, pinning the knight.
click for larger view
If white plays 36 Kb2 white can draw by perpetual check with 36...Qe1+.
If 36 c2 or b4 then 36...Rc8 should work well for black.
|Feb-01-08|| ||YouRang: Well, I got some little bits & pieces, but couldn't put them together. :-(|
I started off looking at Rd8+, but couldn't find any sustainable attack there.
Then the idea of putting the knight where my queen is, creating a nice K+R fork occurred to me. Most of my plans in that direction (i.e. moving my queen) were thwarted by the fact that black's queen can capture Pf7 *with check*. For this reason I tried 37. Rd4, which blocks the check from f6, and as a nice side effect, attacks the queen.
Now, it seems black has a few choices, which seemed to make it more difficult than it was, since any reasonable move (I think) can be answered by 38. Qb4!, which is exactly the move I need to vacate e7 for my knight -- but for some reason, I didn't see it!
|Feb-01-08|| ||kevin86: No idea on this one. I was looking at the cut-off move Nd8,but I saw blacks checks as too dangerous.|
The text is brillianr! White goes after the bishop and sets up a fork at e7-black cannot stop both!
Funny how the games worked out today: The winner of the games of the day is a Japanese while the winner of the puzzle games is a player whose first name happens to be "Jaap". Just a coincidence,as the player's name here is clearly Dutch.
|Feb-01-08|| ||scissors61: the fork on the could be avoided if 38...Kh7|
|Feb-01-08|| ||zb2cr: Missed, missed, missed. <general607> claims that "37. Rd4 screams to be played". Well, I must need a hearing aid--I heard no screams at all. Rats.|
|Feb-01-08|| ||alphee: Gosh ... completly missed this one as many others it seems. I could not find any move I could be confident with, so I gave up and went to the game. Very smart!|
|Feb-01-08|| ||jovack: Black clearly needs to be stopped. He has a mean passed pawn (extra), and a bishop vs a knight (the knight is very strong in this endgame though).|
Moves that came to mind first:
Qd8+ ? (back rank mate just misses)
Rd8+ comes close to a very beautiful mate
Nxd6 threatening mate all over the place but wait, the stupid king has to be exposed, and Qe5+ puts a wrench in all my plans
The weak a1h8 diagonal was a thorn in my side, so I looked for an answer to defend that region, while gaining a tempo with something forcing:
With the idea of attacking the weak gfile after the queen retreats to b4
This leaves two pending attacks. Either black loses his queen, or rook to a knight fork. Black has no pesky queen checks. So this turned out to be good.
This difficulty was appropriate. Many moves to explore, definitely the most involved of the week.
|Feb-01-08|| ||jovack: Hey people:
If queen chooses the square f3. White can just move his rook back c4 defending. Black has nothing left. Then same plan to follow --> Qb4, and the black rook is lost???
|Feb-01-08|| ||wals: The left side of my brain processes information in a linear, sequential
logical manner. The right side works by intuition, a gut feeling that "it's right."
I'm told if I mesh these two side I will have an all conquering machine.
RS Rd3-d4 intuitive
Well the RS went ok never did get around to the logical
|Feb-01-08|| ||inad: 37.Qb7 looks flashy and I don't see any refutations to it(I'm I right).|
|Feb-01-08|| ||zenpharaohs: Well I blundered again. I went with
37 Rd8+ Rxd8
38 Nxd8 Bh5
39 Qe8+ Kh7
which turns out to be drawn according to Rybka, because black plays Bh5.
I'm not sure where I went wrong, but I figured I was grabbing the f7 pawn with some sort of mating/promotion threats. I definitely missed the correct solution.
|Feb-01-08|| ||patzer2: For Today difficult Friday puzzle solution, White plays the deflection 37. Rd4! to set up a surprise clearance and double attack combination after 37...Qg5 38. Qb4! .|
|Feb-01-08|| ||Eyal: <inad: 37.Qb7 looks flashy and I don't see any refutations to it>|
37...Qxf6+ followed by 38...Re8 and black has the advantage. But it emphasizes another important point of 37.Rd4 - blocking the long diagonal, so that 38...Qxf6 isn't played with a check.
|Feb-01-08|| ||zb2cr: Hi <jovack>,
You wrote: "Hey people:
If queen chooses the square f3. White can just move his rook back c4 defending. Black has nothing left. Then same plan to follow --> Qb4, and the black rook is lost???"
That can't be what you meant, I must have missed something. If 37. ... Qf3; 38. Rc4, it looks to me as if Black plays 38. ... Rxc6, losing only the exchange rather than the full Rook. It looks as though White's best is to play 39. Qe8+, Kh7; 40. Qxc6. Unless you were thinking of 40. Qxf7+, Kh6; 41. Qg7+, Kh5; 42. Rxc6, Qxc6; 43. f7, perhaps?
What am I missing?
|Feb-01-08|| ||Manic: <zb2cr> and <jovack>:|
After 37.Rd4 Qf3 38.Qb4 and now if
38.Rxc6 39.Qf8+ appears to be quicker to me.>
|Feb-01-08|| ||zb2cr: <Manic>,
Thanks for pointing that out, but <jovack> was talking about a different line ... he explicitly said White would move his Rook back to c4 defending.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·