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John Nunn vs Jaap van der Tuuk
Utrecht thematic (1986), Utrecht NED, rd 3, Oct-08
Sicilian Defense: Dragon Variation. Yugoslav Attack Old Line (B78)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-01-08  Jason Frost: Bah somehow missed Qb4 after looking at Rd4.
Feb-01-08  newzild: It took me a long time to nail this puppy - maybe 10 minutes or more. Spent a lot of time trying to make 37.Nd8 work, also the obvious 37.Rd8+, then 37.Qd7 and 37.Qd7, then suddenly I see 37.Rd4 and 38.Qb4 and have one of those "aaahhhh" moments that one has while playing through a Fischer game, and it all seems so obvious...
Feb-01-08  logo: Wy doesn't Re7 win??
Feb-01-08  Manic: <jheiner> To me, this puzzle is kind of easy for a Friday and as I said before it seems kind of obvious (even though I missed it). I would not be surprised if most people in any situation (even in a real game) looked first at 37.Rd4, because it attacks the queen and puts the bishop under pressure. <dzechiel's> honesty has been questioned every now and then by kibitzers on the site. However, most CG members including me do not doubt him at all.
Feb-01-08  Manic: <logo> I think 37.Rd7 Bh5 and black is alright, and perhaps may even have a slight advantage.
Feb-01-08  general607: Rd4 just screams to be played. It hits the queen and the bishop and after that, nothing helps like a second attack with Qb4. I was using the threat of the knight fork to win the bishop though. Never thought I would get the rook. I also considered Rd8+ exchanging rooks with Nxd8 and attempting to win the black pawn on f7. So, I saw white's moves, but missed black's... does that count as a right answer?
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: As <MAJ> pointed out, the forcing (and only) winning line for White actually begins with 36.Nc6!, so the position after 35...Rc8 could have made a Saturday/Sunday puzzle. 36.Nc6 prepares the fork on e7 and creates the immediate threat of Rd7, which forces 36...h4 to allow for Bh5; the knight is taboo because 36...Rxc6? allows an immediate mate with 37.Qf8+! Kxf8 38.Rd8# or 37...Kh7 38.Qg7# (note that this potential mating threat remains until Black plays 37...Qg5, which covers g7). Also, 36...e5 would fail to 37.Nd8, and since the e-pawn blocks communications along the h2-b8 diagonal, Black can't counter by Rc7 or Qc7. 36...h4, however, weakens the bishop's post on g4, so now 37.Rd4 - gaining a tempo by attacking the black queen - followed by 38.Qb4, create the double threat of Rxg4 and a knight fork on e7. Very nice combination.
Feb-01-08  zooter: running out of time here, but I notice that 37.Rd7 is a very strong move threatening to capture the pawn on f7 followed by mate

Black has 2 defences

1) 37...Rf8 is met by 38.Qxf8!! (not sure if it deserves a !! though) Kxf8 39.Rd8#

2) 37...Bh5 however seems to save black

Time to check

Feb-01-08  zooter: again, i say my lack of time now to me missing Rd4 (though keen observers would point out that i never get puzzles beyond Wed :) )
Feb-01-08  euripides: <eyal> very elegant. I guess also 37...Bf5, trying to cover f7 with Bg6, cuts off the queen from f6 so White simply plays 38.Rd8+ Rxd8 39.Qxd8+ Kh7 40.Qf8 and Black cannot cover both g7 and f7; once f7 falls White's f pawn is too strong.

In the puzzle,I missed 38.Qb4 after trying to make Rxg4 work - I guess the trick is to notice the Ne7+ possibility and the implication that any tempo-gaining move by the queen is likely to win the rook.

Feb-01-08  Alphastar: I didn't see it. I spent the first five minutes trying something with 1. Nd8, then I tried 1. Rd4 Q~ 2. Rxg4+ Qxg4 and then a knight move but that hardly works either. Queen moves like Qb4 are easy to be overlooked.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <euripides: I guess also 36...Bf5, trying to cover f7 with Bg6, cuts off the queen from f6 so White simply plays 37.Rd8+ Rxd8 38.Qxd8+ Kh7 39.Qf8 and Black cannot cover both g7 and f7; once f7 falls White's f pawn is too strong.>

Yes - thanks for pointing that out. And attempts to cover f7 with the queen would fail as well: 36...Qh6 (aiming for f8) 37.Rd8+ Rxd8 38.Qxd8+ Kh7 39.Ne5 - and Black has no way to defend f7 nor any useful checks; or 36...Qg5/f5 37.Rd7 Qg6 38.Rd8+ Rxd8 39.Ne5!! - where 39...Qh7 blocks the only retreat square available to the king after Qxd8.

Feb-01-08  scholes: Well my first move was Rd8 , after that all sorts of line trying to avoid the perpetual . I saw the Ne7 fork idea but how does white gives the royal fork after moving his queen without a tempo or check so i did not give that much thought to that idea . Truly a beautiful puzzle . Threatening the black queen to create a tempo for own's queen retreat
Feb-01-08  just a kid: It's pretty easy.All you have to do is make a good retreat square for the Queen to allow the fork on e7,so 37.Rd4! was the move.
Feb-01-08  znprdx: aw shucks ... there I was foolishly looking for something spectacular like Qxe6.(I guess I spent too much time on yesterday's Larsen-Tal position) Sometimes there is no magic it is just a routine piling on ...move and count, displace and overwork. OH! what a nice surprise:<MAJ> interesting commentary that in fact Nc6 is the key forcing h4 which has the appearances of an unstoppable promotion.
Feb-01-08  nolanryan: I have no doubt about dzechiel-- he is the man. I was just exasperated because I spent a lot of freaking time to get the puzzle.
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Friday (Difficult): White to play and win

Material: Down a P, and N for B. Black's K-side has been deeply infiltrated on the dark squares by the Pf6, and Black's Bg4 is bad for defensive purposes. The Pf7 is a potential weak point. Black has considerable counterplay in the passed Ph4, so White needs a midgame win. White's Nc6 prevent Qf4 checks on d4 and e5.

Candidates (37.): Nd8, Rd8+, Rd4, Rd7, Qc5, Qd7

37.Rd4 forcing the Qf4 to maintain protection of the Bg4.

37...Q move to protect Bg4 and evade Rd4 38.Qb4 unblocking e7 for Nc6 and attacking 2x the Bg4

38...Qxf6 pinning Rd4 to Kb2 39.Ne7+ and White drops the Rc8


If 37... was Qg5, 39.Rxg4 winning Q for R,

If not, 39.Qf8+ Kxf8 [else 40.Qg2#] 40.Rd8#

Time to peek. Bingo. Time to check the kibitzing. I am glad <dzechiel> thought it was easy for a Friday. There were lots of attractive traps for White to avoid. Personally, the more I looked at the position, the more I saw.

Feb-01-08  Vicao: <jheiner> I first looked at Rd8+ Rxd8 Qxd8+ Kh7 when I wanted to play Qf8, threatening mate at g7, or capturing at f7 with check. However black can reply Qxf6+ which leaves white with nothing.

I then looked at Nd8 (which is a useless move) but which also made clear to me that black can make at least a draw here by checking with the queen at e5, a5 and e1.

I thought that was annoying, so there I started looking at Rd4, after which I managed to solve it.

Feb-01-08  DarthStapler: Funny, I was thinking Nd8 Bh5 Nxe6 (fxe6 Qg7 mate)
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <dzechiel: "I listed my candidate moves in the order that they came to me">

I do the same, which gives you some idea of why I did not find the solution easily.

<jheiner: Rd4 never entered the list. What is the thought process that people go through for generating the list. Is it purely left to right legal moves. I find it suspect that the first move on <dzechiel>s list just happened to be the right move.>

For me, the candidate list is the "creative" part of the process. If I get desperate, I start looking at all aggressive legal moves. I suspect experience dictates why certain candidates are attractive to people.

<Manic: I would not be surprised if most people in any situation (even in a real game) looked first at 37.Rd4, because it attacks the queen and puts the bishop under pressure. <dzechiel's> honesty has been questioned every now and then by kibitzers on the site. However, most CG members including me do not doubt him at all.>

Once I got to the candidate 37.Rd4, I knew it was the right one. It improves the position of the Rd3 by attacking the Bg4, and it surrenders nothing. You can make the move and then start looking seriously at the position.

I do not question <dzechiel>'s honesty. If you follow his posts, which have patterns of success and failure, you see a consistent human thought process. (That is why his posts are valuable.) As an example, you see rapidly that he does not calculate as much as I do, but he has much better positional intuition.

Feb-01-08  JG27Pyth: Omg it took me a solid, focused, 90 minutes of pure thought to find Rd4! but I found it...then I miscalculated the continuation with Qd7 instead of Qb4 (which I looked at, said to myself, oh yeah that looks obviously winning and promptly forgot about while I convinced myself I'd found a forcing line that mated or won a full rook with Qd7... Arrrggghhh!!!!!)

As for this --

<Dzechiel: The first thing I would like to look at is something to the effect of 37 Rd4 followed by 38 Qb4. [snip]

Honestly, I think I must have overlooked something, as this was too easy for a Friday.>

Oh, I believe you Dzechiel! But that doesn't quell my seething soul-searing bitterness and rage ;)

Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): Go... go my pretty... go... seek him... find him... and _poison his sleep_...AWAY! AWAY! *Flash, Purple smoke* ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...

Feb-01-08  buzzymind: <dzechiel>,

After 37. ♖d4 ♕f3 38. ♕b4 and now if
38. ♖xc6 39. ♕f8+ appears to be quicker to me.

Feb-01-08  dzechiel: <Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...>

OK, this got me to laugh out loud. :D

Feb-01-08  MaxxLange: I missed this completely. 37. Rd4 sets up a very nice double attack with 38. Qb4, and does it with tempo.

Note to self: don't mess with John Nunn.

Feb-01-08  dzechiel: <buzzymind: <dzechiel>, After 37. Rd4 Qf3 38. Qb4 and now if 38. Rxc6 39. Qf8+ appears to be quicker to me.>

Excellent! The queen sac IS much faster. Very good, we will have to keep an eye on you. :)

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