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Lajos Portisch vs Tigran V Petrosian
"Mad TV" (game of the day Apr-20-2005)
Moscow (1967), Moscow URS, rd 5, May-26
Slav Defense: Exchange Variation (D10)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-23-05  Jaymthegenius: Some people sayd Bobby Fischer would never be champion, too hard for an American to compete with the Soviet Chess machene, but by god he did it!
Apr-23-05  WillC21: Some peoples rating goes up by 400-500 pts a year. Maybe someone rated like 1100, but that probably doesnt apply to people 2000+ ;)
Apr-23-05  Karpova: jamthegenius' prediction may prove right and kosteniuk will have a rating of 2992 at the end of the year. the chance exists...
Apr-23-05  WillC21: You never know...
Apr-24-05  Karpova: but jaymthegenius surely does!
Apr-24-05  Abaduba: <Jaym> <Kosteniuk is NOT a bad player! They should give her a World title shot! I would love to see Kramnik lose to a girl!>

I appreciate the support, but I'm only pointing out that Kosteniuk is (deservedly) and so drunkenknight had no right to insinuate that she was a bad player. I can't agree that she deserves a title shot; she may be better than you or I, but Kramnik is rated more than 300 points more than she is. And claiming that her advanced positional knowledge is better than Kramnik, who IMHO is one of the greatest positional players ever, is ridiculous. Not only do hundreds (but definitely not thousands) of players have better positional knowledge and more right to a title shot than Kosteniuk, but all but a handful of those players would have zero chance of beating Kramnik.

Apr-25-05  patzer2: Instead of the more passive 6...e6, Black might could have avoided the weakened Kinside, which White effectively exploited, by playing the mainline 6...Bf5 as in V Ikonnikov vs L Dominguez, 2004.
Apr-25-05  patzer2: Portisch was apparently fairly well versed in this opening system, and his 13. 0-0! was a novelty offering to gambit either the pawn on b2 or e3 as a positional sacrifice.

The gambit appears sound as White gets a space advantage, the initiative and attacking chances against the Black Kingside as sufficient compensation. And in this game, he managed to catch Petrosian off guard and pulled off a nice win.

The alternative 13. Qe2!?, trying to hold on to the b2 and e3 pawns, as in H K Matisons vs Euwe, 1924 , offers White no advantage. Yet despite White's strange resignation in a near even position in that game, 13. Qe2!? does not appear to be a particularly bad move. However, 13. 0-0! is stronger.

Apr-25-05  patzer2: <1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. cxd5 cxd5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bf4 e6> I don't like this move. The more popular and active alternative 6...Bf5 offers Black winning counter chances as in Huzman vs Shirov, 2004 <7. e3 Bd6 8. Bg3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. Ne5 Bxe5 11. dxe5 Nd7 12. f4 Qb6 13. O-O> This gambit was a novelty played by Portisch to catch Petrosian off guard. Trying to hold the pawn with 13. Qe2 as in the Euwe game cited above gives White no advantage. <13...Qxe3+> White maintains a small advantage after 13... Qxb2 14. Nb5 Nc5 (14... Rd8? 15. Bh4 f6 16. Nc7 Rb8 17. Nxe6 Re8 18. Bxh7+ ) 15. Rf2 Qb4 16. Nc7 Bd7 17. Nxa8 Rxa8 18. Qd2 Qxd2 19. Rxd2 f6 20. exf6 gxf6 21. Bh4 Nxd3 22. Rxd3 Kf7 23. e4 Ne7 24. Rb1 Bc6 25. e5 fxe5 26. fxe5 Nf5 27. Bf6 <14. Kh1 Qb6> worth a try for Black was 14... Nb4 15. Bb1 Nc6 16. Nb5 <15. Qh5 Nf8> Black is probably wise not to create positional weaknesses with 15... g6 16. Qe2 Nd4 17. Qd2 Nf5 18. Bf2 Perhaps Black could have equalized and held with 15... h6!? 16. Nb5 Nc5 17. Bf2 d4 18. Bc4 Ne4 19. Qe2 Nxf2+ 20. Qxf2 Bd7 21. Nd6 Rf8 22. Qe2 Ne7 23. Rf3 Nf5 24. Rb3 Qc6 25. Nxb7= <16. Rf3 Ng6 17. Bf2 Qd8> Probably not much help for Black is 17... d4?! 18. Ne4 Nce7 (18... Qxb2 19. Rb1 Qxa2 20. Nf6+ Kf8 21. Qxh7 gxf6 22. exf6 Re7 23. Bxg6 fxg6 24. Qh8+ Kf7 25. Re1 Qc2 26. Rh3 g5 27. Bxd4 b6 28. Be5 Bb7 29. Rh7+ Kg6 30. Rg7+ Rxg7 31. Qxg7+ Kf5 32. Qxg5#) 19. Ng5 h6 20. Nxf7 Kxf7 21. Bxg6+ Nxg6 22. Rg3 Re7 23. Qxg6+ Kg8 24. Bxd4 Qxd4 25. Rd3 Qb6 26. Rad1 Bd7 27. Rxd7 Rae8 28. a3 Kf8 29. b4 Qb5 30. R7d3 (30. R7d6 a5 31. bxa5 Qxa5 32. Qg3 b5 33. h3 Kg8 34. Qb3 Qa7 35. R1d2 Qc5 36. Rc2 Qa7 37. Kh2 Kh8 38. Rc3 Qf2 39. Qb4 Qe1 40. Rb6 g5 41. Rf3 Qxb4 42. axb4 Rf7 43. fxg5 Rxf3 44. gxf3 hxg5 45. Kg3 Kh7 46. Kg4 Kg6 47. Rd6 Re7 48. Ra6 Re8 49. Rb6 Re7 50. f4 gxf4 51. Kxf4 Rf7+ 52. Kg4 Re7 53. h4 Kh6 54. Rxb5 Rd7 55. Rb6 Rd4+ 56. Kg3 Kh5 57. b5 Rxh4 58. Rxe6 Rb4 59. Rf6 Kg5 60. Kf3 Rxb5 61. Ke4 Rb4+ 62. Kd5 Rb5+ 63. Kd4 Rb4+ 64. Kc5 Ra4 65. Rf3 Ra6 66. Kd5 Ra5+ 67. Kd6 Ra6+ 68. Ke7 Ra7+ 69. Ke8 Ra6) 30... Kg8 31. Rd8 Rf8 32. h3 Qc6 33. Kh2 Qc7 34. Rxf8+ Kxf8 35. Rd6 a5 36. b5 b6 37. a4 <18. Nb5 Nce7> Black needed to try and hold with 18... Rf8 19. Bc5 Nce7 20. Raf1 b6 21. Bxe7 Qxe7 22. Nd6 a5 23. Rd1 Bd7 24. Rh3 h6 25. Bxg6 fxg6 26. Qxg6 Be8 27. Qg4 Kh7 28. Rc3 Rd8 <19. Nd6 Bd7?> Black misses his last chance to play 19...Rf8 with drawing chances.<20. Bh4!> Now Black is busted, even though Portisch had a stronger and easier winning alternative in 20. Nxe8! <20...Qb6 21. Rh3 h6 22. Bf6 Qxb2 23. Rf1 Nf5> No help for Black is 23... d4 24. Nxf7! <24. Bxf5!> Black resigns in lieu of 24...exf5 25. Bxg7! 1-0

Premium Chessgames Member
  ToTheDeath: What a massacre.
Aug-04-11  DrMAL: Petrosian avoided the ugly but effective pawn moves 15...g6 or 15...h6 and chose a (bad) plan with 15...Nf8. It takes a very sharp eye to see the (best) plan Portisch adopted in response. 19...Bd7 was a second mistake losing faster, and Portisch found the best route here with 20.Bh4 as well. Bad day for Petrosian, great win for Portisch. Happy Birthday to him!
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Some of the posts here are totally unphatimable.
Jul-23-13  Abdel Irada: <offramp: Some of the posts here are totally unphatimable.>

I think you mean "unfathomable," unless you're suggesting that they are incapable of being turned into Phatima [sic].

Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Actually, I was thinking of this post:

< Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: What's that? The appearance?

I was refering to her unphatimable positional and endgame knowledge...>

Jul-23-13  Abdel Irada: <offramp: Actually, I was thinking of this post:

< Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: What's that? The appearance?

I was refering to her unphatimable positional and endgame knowledge...>>

I hadn't seen that. Apparently it appeared on an earlier page.

Besides, you can't expect geniuses to follow the same spelling rules as the common herd. ;-)

Sep-03-15  NeverAgain: This thread is pure gold, if slightly off-topic.

<Karpova: [Kosteniuk]'s is neither one of the most talented chessplayers nor one of the most talented and best female chessplayers.>

<<Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: Hey! Don't be rude! In time she will be world champion material! Just you watch!>>

Of course, time is a relative thing. And ten years is merely a flicker across its ever-changing panorama. That means we've got ten years more watching Kosteniuk become world-champion material while we try to remember not to be rude.

I wonder where Jaymthegenius is now and if he even remembers who Kosteniuk is.

Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Honza Cervenka: <dk><17...Qxb2 wins the game outright>

<Hmmm, I don't think so. After 18.Rb1 Qxc3 19.Rh3 black is in serious troubles. 19...Kf8 is then almost forced (19...h6 20.Bxg6 fxg6 21.Qxg6 ; 19....Qa5 20.Qxh7+ Kf8 21.Rb5 Qc3 22.Bc5+ ), but after 20.Qxh7 Nxf4 (what else?) 21.Bh4 g5 (forced) 22.Qh6+ Ke7 23.Qxg5+ Kd7 24.Qxf4 Rf8 (24...f5 25.exf6 e.p. Rf8 26.Qh6 Qa3 27.Qg7+ Kd8 28.Bg5 and 29.Rh8 ) 25.Bb5 Qa5 26.Bxc6+ bxc6 27.Qf6 white wins easily.>

Thanks, I couldn't believe nobody even mentioned Qxb2 in their long analyses. I thought: Oh, it's so obvious to everybody else that it's a bad move that they didn't even bother to discuss it, but all I could think of was 17. Qxb2 Rb1 18. Q3 Rh3 and I wasn't sure it worked. Then I waded back to the beginning of the thread, which I rarely do, and found your comprehensive analysis.

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: I found this game thanks to <Scurvy>'s post on the tournament page, and I'm so glad I did.

<Scuvy: More than any other player, Lajos Portisch took the role usually played by Korchnoi and imparted a definite character to the tourney. He came to play and had more decisive games than anyone else. His beautiful endgame versus Keres was proof of this, and maintained his fighting attitude even though he was defeated in a crushing miniature by Geller.>

Thanks to <Honza> and <patzer2> for their analyses, and to <jaymthegenius> for "unphatimable". It's not a word, but it really ought to be.

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: In the 1960s, Portisch gave his great opponent a rough ride, though the worm turned later in their careers.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <perfidious: In the 1960s, Portisch gave his great opponent a rough ride>

And this was a rough ride for sure! What an instructive game. I don't know if Portisch would have taken the e3-pawn, but the colors could have been inverted, since these two players had pretty similar styles.

A great deal of calculation must have gone into making sure the b2-pawn was well defended tactically. Once that pawn is secured, White has pretty dangerous attacking compensation for the pawn.

Jun-27-20  Howard: Petrosian only finished with an even score in this super strong event, despite being World Champion at the time.

During his second “term” as WC, his tournament results just were not worthy of the title.

Jun-27-20  EdZelli: Well you forgot the 1966 and 1968 Olympiads where all dogs and cats (Boris, Bobby, Bent, etc) were present.

Petrosian won the the Board One with the
score of 11 1/2 out of 13 in 1966 Havana Olympiad.

Petrosian also won 1968 Lugano Olympiad's Board One with the score of 10 1/2 out of 12.

Not too shabby, Ay !

By 1966, Petrosian had been World Champ twice in row. He had been there done that and sold the T-shirt. By late 1970's no chess player alive could match his achievements. Not even close !!

Jun-27-20  Howard: We all are entitled to our opinions—-I didn’t overlook those two events.

By the way, what about S Monica 1966.
Petrosian only had an even score in that event, too. And that took place right after his first match against Spassky.

Jun-28-20  EdZelli: Facts and opinions are two very different things: Below are some of Petrosian's records.


1963 Won World Championship
1966 Successfully defended his title. * Didn't put his tail between his legs and run-off. Beating Boris at his peak must have grueling. The match is still remembered as some of the very best Wold Championship games ever played. 1966 Havana Olympiad Board One winner.
1968 Switzerland Olympiad Board One winner.
1969 Soviet Champion. * Oh, piece of cake compared to Micky Mouse US championship. 1972 San Antonio shared first place.
1973 Amsterdam IBM. Shared first place.
1975 Soviet Champion
1976 Won Lone Pine in California
1976 2nd place Biel Interzonal
1979 Keres Memorial. Won 1st place.
1979 Shared first place in Rio Interzonal.
1981 2nd place Tiburg Interzonal

Western countries and their media Spin Machines never liked the so-called Russian. Racism and envy played a big role in their hatred. But Petrosian's record/facts speak louder than words ....

By the way, his impressive (one loss only) record in Olympiads sill stand after some 50 odd years so is the number of times he qualified to play in zonals.

Jun-28-20  Howard: First, let me state upfront that Petrosian
is one of my all-time favorite players—this, I prefer not to undermine him if possible.

You are quite correct, by the way, that Petrosian made it into the Candidates quite consistently. In fact, 1982 was the first time in 30 years (Wow) that he failed to make to make the Candidates. I was only 22 at the time and still remember noticing that.

At any rate, exactly what are we debating here. I originally stated that Iron Tigran’s tournament record from 1966-1969 was not worthy of a WC and I still feel that way.

You, however, have responded by citing tournament results from outside that period. We seem to be discussing two different things.

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