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Wilhelm Steinitz vs Philipp Meitner
"Meitner Might Not" (game of the day Dec-26-2004)
Vienna (1860)
Italian Game: Scotch Gambit. Max Lange Attack (C55)  ·  1-0



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Given 68 times; par: 27 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-08-04  artemis: <Shadout Mapes> I think that your analysis of the move on 11... Qxf6, while correct is nowhere near the source of black's problems. his problems seem to be starting perhaps as far back as the pawn move, 6... d5, and if not there, certaintly after 9... Qd5. On his eleventh move it seems that he has very few options and his best move is probably Qxf6. If a decent sacrifice was available, i would recommend it, but here the only piece that can be sacraficed is the queen and the compensation is not enough
Mar-08-04  capanegra: <tamar> That is a very interesting question. Until the 1870's, Steinitz was just another romantic. As a matter of fact, when he stared playing internationally in the 1860’s, he was known as the “Austrian Morphy” because of his brilliant tactical play (it is not by chance that he also was a profound student of Morphy’s games). There is also an anecdote about this: during a period, many chess magazines thought -in a confusion- that the famous game Steinitz vs Rock, 1863 actually was played by Morphy!!

But in the 1870’s (some people say particularly in the Vienna Tournament of 1873) all changed. He started to worry more about positional play. He used to say that if it had not been for defensive errors, the romantic attacks of that time would not have worked. So, he centered his attention in the accumulation of small advantages and the pawns structure. Probably there is not such a sudden change in a player’s style in the hole chess history. Why did this happen? I couldn’t tell. The only certain is that he was a visionary.

Mar-08-04  capanegra: <Shadout Mapes> <tamar> <artemis> I’ve checked out move eleven in some theory books. They doesn’t recommend 11.g4 because of 11…♕g6 (♕xf6? is a mistake), and now:

1) 12.♘3e4 ♗b6 13.f4 0-0-0! 14.f5 ♗xf5 15.gxf5 ♕xf5 (Panov/Estrin)

2) 12.♘xe6 fxe6 13.♖xe6+ ♔d7 14.♘d5 ♖he8! (Estrin)

3) 12.fxg7 ♖g8 13.♘3e4 ♗e7 14.f4 h6! 15.f5 ♕xg7 16.fxe6 hxg5 17.exf7+ ♕xf7 18.♗xg5 0-0-0 (Estrin)

So, 11.♘3e4 is better.

Mar-08-04  Andrew Chapman: 11.. Qg6 is said to give black the advantage.
Mar-08-04  artemis: <capanegra> Thanks!
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: This crush apparently was convincing enough to deter anybody else from trying this line. Steinitz was present at Nuremburg 1896 for the first test of 11...♕g6 Blackburne vs Teichmann, 1896, which features one of the lines that <capanegra> gives as satisfactory for black.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: 11...Qg6 was tried much earlier then in 1896. See Kolisch vs R Steel, 1861
Sep-12-04  DanielBryant: What energetic play from White. I wasn't expecting such a game from the "random game" feature!
Dec-26-04  be3292: Ohhh, the merciless Queenchase and the tactical genius throughout was much more satisfying than the indescrible Christmas dinner I enjoyed earlier. Ahhh, Steinitz, so sad that strategy is now the rule of the day.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marius: what was the game of the day of the 25 december, please ?
Dec-26-04  sneaky pete: <Marius> That's L Day vs Benko, 1980.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marius: ah thank you <sneaky pete>
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Black made a wrong turn in the "Max" and was forced to pay-as the result,the king looked like a quarterback without a line.
Dec-26-04  Slayer772002: Take a look at the board after 9...Qd5. All the black pieces are developped and he got 2 high pawns, white got almost nothing ! And still ...
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: My four-year-old grandson is already taking an interest in learning Chess, and I plan to mark this game as one to use later on in teaching him basic tactical themes.

After the deflection tactic 11. g4?! Qxf6?? 12. Nd5 Qd8, White's demolition of pawn structure combination 13. Rxe6!! starts a King hunt, utlizing a number of good instructional tactics, including pins, knight forks, discovered check and deflection as part of an overall pursuit (i.e. king hunt) mating attack.

Jan-29-05  aw1988: Could certainly spend a while analyzing this one, despite the fact white looks won the entire game; nevertheless..
Mar-31-05  colp99: Amazing game!
Jan-31-07  Holmstrom: Beautiful game by Steinitz
Oct-26-09  JG27Pyth: <Beautiful game by Steinitz>...

Beautiful? Okay, but like a Hieronymous Bosch painting is beautiful...

Mid-way thru guess-the-move with this game, which I'd never seen before... I looked at the insane attack Steinitz had committed to and I said, more or less out loud and certainly with an unflattering degree of self-pity <"I don't know anything about how to play this game! I've got a lot to learn about open games!"> ...

Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: A slight oddity. After 18.Qb3

click for larger view

and after white's last move

click for larger view

The positions are very similar!
But 15 moves have passed!

Aug-19-12  LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:

Steinitz vs Meitner, 1860.
Your score: 35 (par = 25)


Nov-03-13  davide2013: Guess-the-Move Final Score:

Steinitz vs Meitner, 1860.
Your score: 45 (par = 26)

I know, I'm too strong!

May-20-14  ljfyffe: Steinitz-Babson, Henderson, Fleming Montreal simul 1893 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nc6 3Bc4 Nf6 4Ng4 d5 5exd5 Na5 6Bb5+ c6 7dxc6 bxc6 8Bf1 h6 9Nh3 Bc5 10c3 Qd5 11f3 Nb6 12Nf2 0-0 13Qe2 Re8 14Ne4 Nh5 15d3 Ba6 16g4 Nf4 17Bxf4 exf4 18c4 Qd4 19Nbc3 Rad8 200-0-0 Nb7 21Qg2 Re6 22g5 hxg5 23h4 g4 24Qxg4 Qe5 25Ng5 Rg6 26Bh3 Be3+ 27Kc2 Nc5 28Qh5 Qf6 29Nce4 Qd4 30Nxc5 Qxc5 31Be6 Rh6 32Qf7+ Kh8 33Qc7 Rf8 34Nf7 Kh7 35N×h6 Kxh6 36Rh2 Bb5 37Rg2 Ba4+ 38b3 Bd4 39Rdg1 Qa3 40Rg6 Kh5 41R1g5 Kxh4 42Rg4 Kh5 43R6g5 Kh6 44Rh5 K×h5 45Bf7+ 1-0
Dec-27-14  jasmin: Why not 9...Qf6?
Dec-27-14  sneaky pete: Here's why:
H Heider vs J Platz, 1920
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