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Yasser Seirawan vs Duncan Suttles
"Subtle Suttles" (game of the day Jul-11-2004)
Vancouver (Canada) (1981), Vancouver CAN, rd 10, Aug-??
English Opening: King's English Variation. Troger Defense (A21)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-11-04  ConspTheory06: 42. Rf3 Rh1+ 43. Kf2 Rxg2+ 44. Kxg2 Qh2#
Jul-11-04  actinia: 25. d4, opening up the position with the king in the center is very interesting. Presumably he intended the pawn sac to get play on the a1-h8 diagonal. White seems better after 34. Ne3, instead of Nc7, with pressure down both main diagonals.
Jul-11-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: Suttles retired from over-the-board chess in 1975 saying there wasn't enough money in it. He said he would return when he had a million dollars in the bank. He did play correspondence getting a CGM title. He was very good at stock market and knowing when to switch his assets to computers. By 1981 he had his million and UBC organized this come-back tournament walking distance from his apartment. He began very slowly but then regained his enthusiasm and downed Tony Miles to meet Seirawan in the final round. The final moves were all played very quickly. Incidentally back in 1973 Suttles had a string of 5 strong events where he won or shared first. One of these was a US Open in Chicago where his first round opponent was a very young Seirawan.
Jul-11-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  jaime gallegos: interesting notes IM Day
Jul-11-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: 39.Re4 was a decisive mistake. 39.Re8 seems to be sufficient defence for white to keep balance.
Jul-11-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Subtle? Suttles was as "subtle" as a Sherman tank! Great example of battering-ram chess. Black uses a queen two rooks and a knight to attack.

Chess,like other forms of art,it rarely played for the money. If it was,Kasparov would be making Shaq money.

Jul-12-04  acirce: Chess is a game, not an art. It's about beating your opponent, not writing a poem.
Jul-12-04  sneaky pete: <acirce> You're beginning to look more like your avatar every day. Some of us prefer the kind of chess Morphy, Tal and Bronstein played. If you want to beat your opponent, try boxing.
Jul-12-04  acirce: Morphy, Tal and Bronstein didn't play to beat their opponents? That's certainly news to me. Other than that, what's your point?
Jul-12-04  iron maiden: <acirce> You're right about chess; it's a game, and the first and foremost criteria of a game is that it must be fun. Some people, like you apparently, derive the most pleasure from beating their opponent as quickly and soundly as possible, while others like Bronstein consider themselves artists whose goals are originality and attractiveness with actual results taking a lower priority. Still others enjoy the scientific aspect, looking for innovation and new ideas. Don't act like there is only one approach to the game of chess.
Jul-12-04  acirce: Because I point out that chess is a game I act like "there is only one approach to the game of chess"?!? Wow. No, I don't do that, I happen to have the ability to look beyond my own preferred style and my own favourite players. Where did you get the idea that I don't?
Jul-12-04  iron maiden: Just the fact that you called it "a game and not an art". Bronstein for example approached the game first as an art and then as a sport. Your post is extremely clear about denying the artful approach to the game of chess.
Jul-12-04  acirce: Nope, there are of course artistic aspects of it, but by being a game it differs fundamentally from being "an art". That's all I said.
Jul-12-04  iron maiden: But if it's truly a game, couldn't it be approached either way--as an art or as a sport? It could be all about winning the game as soundly as you can, but it could also be about chancing it with fireworks and sacrificial combinations like Tal always did. You can't say for sure that it's about "beating your opponents" because that in itself may not be the way to generate maximum satisfaction for every single person.
Jul-12-04  acirce: Everyone is totally entitled to their own approach to the game, I having an opinion does not mean me being dogmatic. Tal used his "fireworks and sacrificial combinations" to win his games - he was WC remember? - so that doesn't speak against anything anyway. How do you know that his results would have been better without them? I certainly doubt it.

But in any case, what is your point? I regard the game as a non-art, Bronstein and many others don't agree, that is just a case of differing opinions, in what way is that a crime?

Jul-12-04  gabrielr: I think acirce is making the point that a game, by definition, is designed--as played--to produce a winner and a loser. The game's function and the player's intention are two different matters, although they may be one and the same.
Jul-12-04  acirce: That's pretty well put <gabrielr>.
Jul-12-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I referred to chess as an art,above. I pointed out that in most other arts,money takes a back seat. If SEARCHING FOR BOBBY FISCHER has any credibility,the players at Marshall Chess Club seem to be as emotionally on edge as stockbrokers down the street, who make millions-instead of thousands.

Chess is meant to be won-like boxing;but,isn't it true that boxers can be artistic as well? They even,regrettably be as clowns.

If Mike Tyson was just a mauler in the ring,would we even remember him? For good (or mostly bad) boxing has become a circus.

Jul-12-04  iron maiden: <acirce> If you had admitted the artistic approach in your first post, and then expressed your preference for the other approach, then I'd have no problem. You just stated your opinion as if it was a fact. If you do regard the sporting approach as an opinion and not as fact then I apologize, but that post did not exactly make that clear.
Jul-13-04  acirce: Usually when you say something of a debatable kind it's understood that it is not meant as some kind of rock-hard, objective, totally indisputable FACT but as an opinion. I don't know why you should have to make that explicit each and every time.
Jul-13-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: I think the point is that *playing chess as if it were an art* produces comparable results to treating it as a science. Chess is just the most cerebral, sublimated form of 'martial arts'; a sort of kung fu for paraplegics.
Jul-13-04  iron maiden: <it is not meant as some kind of rock-hard, objective, totally indisputable FACT but as an opinion> Okay, but whether you viewed it as an opinion or a fact, I was debating it.
Jul-13-04  acirce: <iron maiden> I agreed with everything you said.
Jul-13-04  iron maiden: <acirce> Pardon me for being stupid, but what's that supposed to mean?
Jul-13-04  acirce: I agreed with the contents of every post you made in this discussion, I just felt that it in no way contradicted my view on chess as a non-art.
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