chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

John van der Wiel vs Jan Timman
Amsterdam Optiebeurs (1988), Amsterdam NED, rd 5, May-18
Spanish Game: Closed. Bogoljubow Variation (C91)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 39 more Van der Wiel/Timman games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can learn a lot about this site (and chess in general) by reading the Chessgames Help Page. If you need help with premium features, please see the Premium Membership Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-06-07  arnaud1959: You don't need a computer to see 33.-♘d1. I saw it at once and I have no title. So a grandmaster would see it for sure. Well, this one didn't see it or he thought his continuation was more promising. A very good exemple of overloaded pieces. Both rooks protect a piece and the back rank. You just need to remove the last defender of the back rank wich gives logically the move 33.♖e7
Dec-06-07  Hoozits: Doesn't 33. Bxc3, Rxc3 34. Rd5, ... also produce the desired result? Or no?
Dec-06-07  znprdx: The key is to visualize a bank rank mate requiring a series of deflections. This requires the kind of illuminated vision that makes us chess addicts when we experience it. Suddenly the impossible seems doable (although it might take a little while as the song goes). If at first you dont succeed, try, try again

33.Bxc3[N] Rxc3[R] perhaps but 34. Bxb5 is not playable due to Bxb5[B] 35.Rxb5[B] Bxf2+

33.Re7 attacks the QB ....Be8 34.Rxe8 [B] Rxe8 [R] 35. Bxc3[N] two pieces for the rook, maybe...

Aha! 33.Rxb6[B] Rxb6[R] 34.Bxc3[N] Rxc3[B] 35.Rd6 and here it is the initial insight, albeit a bit more elaborate where can the Bishop go or how can it be protected?

If ...35.Be8 36.Rd8 Kf8 37.Bxb5 (a self-inflicted pin) So..35.Rc7 36.Bxb5! and again the Bishop cannot be saved....although Im at the fuzzy limits.....Frankly Im prepared to accept I may not have this quite right, since I have a history of coming up short in the execution despite seeing the key concept and features. OTB I would likely have broken into a cold sweat as the clock ticked on and I ended up in severe time pressure in Blitz dead lost rapid maybe a 50-50 chance. So time to look .................

Really? Oh Well ... this is almost agonizing (as if it were Sunday) is Re7 really the best right away? My solution seems more efficient I could use the vindication for a change can anyone support me?

Dec-06-07  chessdr: Hoozits, I don't have a board but if 33. Bxc3 Rxc3 34. Rd5 Rc7. This is does not work after the text because of 33. Re7 Rc7 34. Bxc3.
Dec-06-07  blair45: <<Hoozits: Doesn't 33. Bxc3, Rxc3 34. Rd5, ... also produce the desired result? Or no? >> This was my solution too. It fails to 35. ... Be8 and if 36. Rd8 Kf8, I guess.
Dec-06-07  thegoldenband: Giving up a rook for two pieces is interesting after 33...Na4 34. Rxa4 bxa4 35. Rxd7, but the lines I'm seeing end up in very drawish positions (i.e. 35...Rd8 36. Bf5 g6 37. Bg4 f5 38. Rxd8+ Rxd8 39. Nc4 Bxf2+ 40. Kxf2 fxg4 41. hxg4, though there are no doubt improvements for both sides).

For what it's worth, I'm not a particularly strong player, and saw 33...Nd1 right away -- assumed it was the main line, actually, and couldn't see how to deal with it. The process of elimination leads you to it. Another interesting move I saw ws 33...Be8; my computer wants to give up a rook for two pieces after 34. Bxc3 Kf8 (34...Rxc3 35. Rxb6) 35. Rxe8+, which looks good but not yet lethal.

Dec-06-07  zenpharaohs: Anyone who sees Nd1 can see Na4 - they have the same idea of counterattacking White's undefended Bishop. The difference is that Nd1 is still saving that Bishop, but Na4 exchanges the Bishop, the advantage of that for Black is the open c file for the Rook. The resulting position is well beyond my skill to see anything decisive.

I put it to Rybka overnight and the line Rybka likes is:

33 ... Na4
34 Bxg7 Kxg7
35 Rxd7 Rc1+
36 Kh2 Nb2
37 Be2 Bxf2
38 Bh5 Bg1+
39 Kg3 Rc1+

It seems that White has a pawn advantage but Black has the initiative and might get some play for his Rooks.

Dec-06-07  zb2cr: I saw the fact that Black's back rank was vulnerable, so the Black Rooks' protection might not be all it was cracked up to be. It took me around 3-4 minutes to even think of 33. Re7 as the initial move. After that, my thought process paralleled the channels mentioned by <YouRang>, above.
Dec-06-07  zhivago: "Ditto" on zb2cr. It seems that a lot of us got the theme of the Bishop guarding e8 and the overstressed Black rooks which couldn't do both jobs of protecting pieces and covering the back rank. I also didn't see the Nd1 or Na4 defensive tries, but considering I'm just getting back into chess after about a 17 year hiatus, I'm satisfied that I found the correct idea.
Dec-06-07  zenpharaohs: znpdrx: "Aha! 33.Rxb6[B] Rxb6[R] 34.Bxc3[N] Rxc3[B] 35.Rd6 and here it is the initial insight, albeit a bit more elaborate where can the Bishop go or how can it be protected?"

I think you mean 35 Rd5. But if White plays this line, where is the payoff for his material sacrifice? Black has 35 ... Be8 and that looks fine for Black.

When is the answer to be revealed? I am completely stumped.

Dec-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I saw the moves but couldn't get the syntax right. First move to e7,then exchange at c3-then follow with the capture at b6. Black cannot take on penalty of last rank mate and thus,loses a piece. With both rooks off the eighth and the bishop moved away from e8-that square becomes a vuneral spot.

In the opening position-move 33- the square is thrice guarded!

Dec-06-07  CaptGeorge: I found "game" moves:
33. Re7 Be6
34: bxc3 ...
but couldn't find a suitable reply to:
34: ... Kf8

I guess I'm just not up to these "more" difficult puzzles.

Anyone have a winning line after Kf8?

Dec-06-07  YouRang: <CaptGeorge> <Anyone have a winning line after 34...Kf8?>

Good question. I think that since white is already up a piece (due to 34. Bxc3), he just responds to 34...Kf8 by taking another: 35. Rxe6 fxe6

White has 2 pieces for a rook (considered an advantage for the 2 pieces) and the black b-pawn will fall shortly. Also, black's kingside pawns are more vulnerable now that the f-pawn isolated and his g-pawn is attacked by the bishop and defended only by his king.

An all-around bad situation for black.

Dec-06-07  CaptGeorge: <YouRang: ...An all-around bad situation for black.> Yes, that all makes good sense. But, I would have played 34. ... Kf8. I guess that's why I still lose a lot of games. Hopefully, all this analysis will make me a better player!
Dec-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <znprdx> <33.Rxb6[B] Rxb6[R] 34.Bxc3[N] Rxc3[B] 35.Rd<5> and here it is the initial insight, albeit a bit more elaborate where can the Bishop go or how can it be protected? If ...35.Be8 36.Rd8 Kf8 37.Bxb5 (a self-inflicted pin)>

White wont play 37 Bxb5 because of 37 Rxb5.

<So..35.R<b>7 36.Bxb5! and again the Bishop cannot be saved...>

Black can play 36 Bxb5

If I got through the typos correctly, it looks like youve sacrificed material for naught.

<captGeorge> <I found "game" moves: 33. Re7 Be6
34: bxc3 ...
but couldn't find a suitable reply to:
34: ... Kf8
I guess I'm just not up to these "more" difficult puzzles. Anyone have a winning line after Kf8?>

35 Rxe6 fxe6 36 Ne4. should do it. White will soon win a pawn as well, in a number of ways, depending on how black responds. The move is not such a bad one, though. The continuation doesn't show any one move that jumps out there, it's more of a methodical endgame.

Heres a move I dont understand 36 g5 instead of Kf8. This latter move attacks the rook, forcing it to move and gets rid of the threat of a back rank mate. White must play 37 Ra7 (not Rb7) or give up all advantage. Now black can play 37 Rxd2. White should be able to force a rook for bishop exchange, but its still better than losing a full piece.

Dec-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, 33. Re7! deflects the Bishop, to removes it's guard in order to weaken Black's back rank and allow White to win a piece.

One interesting aspect of the deflection 33. Re7! is that it proves both the Black Bishop and the Black Rook to be overworked pieces, after forcing a weakened back rank position.

Dec-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Square Dance> I found 33. Re7!, but missed the possibility 33...Na4! allowing Black to fight on after 34. Bxg7 Kxg7 35. RxB . Thanks for demonstrating the strongest defense.
Dec-06-07  tal lover: < willyfly > i think 33...Bc6 simply 34.Bxc3
Dec-06-07  TheaN: 3.5/4

Mwah mwah. What a shame, this position seems to be loose. I have found 33.Re7 as a threatening move, found the game continuation, thought I could maeet 33....Na4 with Rxa4 and 33....Nd1 with Be5: the last one is wrong, and I've missed 34....Kf8 in the game's line. I think this one comes close to Saturday or Sunday, although the difference is that there is no sac that puts the playing side under pressure.

Dec-06-07  RandomVisitor: 30...Bc7 = , three fold repetition...
Dec-06-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Infohunter: <sataranj: can ne1 tell me how do i check the previous day's puzzle?>

Go to this page: Tactics Archive.

Dec-06-07  sataranj: thanx infohunter
Dec-07-07  triangulation: ok. let me take a crack at this.
33.Re7 seems to me the best move which generates a lot of threats.Be6 seems to be the best move for black then Bxc3 and Rxb6 and then if ...rd8 then be4 and the game is up.

time to check

Dec-07-07  square dance: <patzer2> you're welcome, but the real thanks goes to the "killer zee's", <zenpharaohs> and <zooter> who were already discussing 33...Na4! when i "solved" the puzzle by finding 33.Re7! and some of the subsequent defenses. i think with this puzzle you can give yourself a pat on the back(i did) if you found 33.Re7 as it appears to be the only way to play for the advantage. after this it is up to black to find ways to try and fight for the draw.
Dec-07-07  square dance: <TheaN> <and 33....Nd1 with Be5: the last one is wrong, and I've missed 34....Kf8 in the game's line.> actually, after 33...Nd1 34.Be5 is correct. after 34...Kf8 you have 35.Rxd7 Bxf2+ 36.Kf1 and if 36...Re8 threatening to capture the ♗e5 or mate in 1 white just plays 37.Nf3 with a winning position.

on the other hand, if 33...Na4 34.Rxa4 bxa4 35.Rxd7 Rd8=.

search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any gratuitous name-calling of any members—including Admin and Owners—or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Spanish Game: Closed. Bogoljubow Variation (C91) 1-0 33.?
from Spaniards Sailin' Abroad by fredthebear
Hard Daily Puzzles
by Jaredfchess
33.? (Thursday, December 6)
from POTD Ruy Lopez by takchess
Spanish Game: Closed. Bogoljubow Variation (C91) 1-0 33.?
from Kash Kab of Kalamazoo by fredthebear
33 blancas
from Puzzle 4 by ALEXIN
33.? (December 6, 2007)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
33. Re7!
from Weakened Back Rank by patzer2
33.? (Thursday, December 6)
from Puzzle of the Day 2007 by Phony Benoni
Closed Spanish
from QUIQUE COLLECCION by genie9
Hard Daily Puzzles
by PositionalTactician
Closed Spanish, 1988
by Chessdreamer
33 backrank
from TacticalArchives by villasinian


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC